The LNER Encyclopedia

The ECML is in chaos today after a series of lineside fires north and south of Doncaster this afternoon. The blame is being pointed at a light engine move of 70013 and 30777 with the Ash pan of 70013 being suspected of being left open. Engine move abandoned at Newark.

Copied from elsewhere.

After the lineside fires at Rossington and Bawtry from 5Z22 (now sat at Newark Northgate awaiting a tow from a diesel) comes the resulting chaos (from 1620 to 1815-1845)!

Note – with 47270 replacing 6201 from Scarborough after it fell in the dirt, the failure on the WCML for West Coast, and the 2 kettles at Newark awaiting rescue – West Coast are not having a good day!

Down:

1N85 13:08 Kings Cross - Leeds held at Bawtry – 127 minutes delay, arrived 134 late arrival at York (1747)

1N19 13:30 Kings Cross - Newcastle on block with 1N85 – 152 minutes delay, 157 late arrival at York (1808).

1D16 13:35 Kings Cross - Leeds on block with 1N19 – 158 minutes delay, South Kirkby Jn 1806 (164 late)

1H04 13:48 Kings Cross - Hull held in the back platform at Retford, cancelled at Retford.

1S20 14:00 Kings Cross - Aberdeen held at Newark Northgate – 68 minutes delay, 104 late Retford, 148 late Doncaster, last reported Hambleton 1806 (146 late)

1D17 14:05 Kings Cross - Leeds held in the Down Claypole Loop – 123 minutes delay, Doncaster 1810 (151 late)

1B86 14:08 Kings Cross – Newark Northgate arrived 1536 (1 early)

1N21 14:30 Kings Cross - Newcastle held in Platform 4 at Peterborough – not showing as departed Peterborough!

1D18 14:35 Kings Cross - Leeds held on Down Fast at Peterborough – 141 minutes delay, Grantham 1810 (150 late)

1S22 15:00 Kings Cross - Glasgow Central on Down Slow Line Fletton, 140 minutes delay – Peterborough 1803

1D19 15:05 Kings Cross - Leeds held Down Slow Line at Holme – 77 minutes delay – no report at Peterborough yet!

1N87 15:08 Kings Cross - York on block with 1D19 – 96 minutes delay – no report at Peterborough yet!

Nothing leaving Kings Cross for north the after the 15:08 departure.

Cancelled:

1S23 1530 Edinburgh
1D20 1535 Leeds
1H05 1548 Hull
1S24 1600 Aberdeen
1D21 1605 Leeds
1B88 1608 Newark Northgate
1S25 1630 Edinburgh
1D22 1633 Leeds

1N24 1648 Kings Cross – Sunderland started from Welwyn Garden City at 1741 (39 late), last reported Holme 1812 (43 late)

1S26 1700 Kings Cross – Edinburgh departed 14 late, last reported Tallington 1818 (29 late)

1D36 1703 Kings Cross – Leeds departed right time, last reported Stoke Jn 1821 (16 late)

1H10 1718 Kings Cross – Hull cancelled

1N27 1730 Kings Cross – Newcastle cancelled

1D24 1733 Kings Cross – Harrogate departed 20 late, last reported Sandy 1825 (20 late)

1D25 1749 Kings Cross – Leeds not yet departed

1S28 1800 Kings Cross – Edinburgh departed 2 late

1D26 1803 Kings Cross – Skipton not yet departed

1N29 1819 Kings Cross – Newcastle not yet departed

1S30 1830 Kings Cross – Edinburgh not yet departed

1D27 1833 Kings Cross – Bradford Forster Square cancelled

Up:

1A65 12:28 Sunderland - Kings Cross held in Platform 1 at Welwyn GC – showing cancelled at Welwyn Garden City

1A33 13:45 Leeds - Kings Cross held at Potters Bar

1E14 1200 Edinburgh – Kings Cross cancelled from Doncaster

1E15 09:52 Aberdeen - Kings Cross held in Plat 8 at Doncaster - diverted via Gainsborough to Newark, arrive Peterborough 1819 (43 late on a re-schedule)

1A36 14:45 Leeds - Kings Cross held in Plat 1 at Doncaster, cancelled from Doncaster

1B87 1552 Newark Northgate – Kings Cross delayed by 76 minutes at Peterborough

1A37 15:15 Leeds - Kings Cross held at Dock Hills Junction, cancelled from Doncaster

1Y38 1425 Newcastle – Kings Cross cancelled throughout

1A96 1510 Hull – Kings Cross cancelled from Doncaster

1E17 1330 Edinburgh – Kings Cross cancelled from York

1A39 1545 Leeds – Kings Cross cancelled throughout

1Y88 1601 York – Kings Cross cancelled throughout

1A40 1615 Leeds – Kings Cross cancelled throughout

1E18 1400 Edinburgh – Kings Cross last reported Doncaster 1823 (91 late)

1E19 1430 Edinburgh – Kings Cross cancelled throughout

1A41 1645 Leeds – Kings Cross cancelled throughout

1A67 1537 Bradford Interchange – Kings Cross last reported Stoke Jn 1824 (24 late)

1B89 1754 Newark Northgate – Kings Cross cancelled throughout

1A43 1715 Leeds – Kings Cross cancelled throughout

1A97 1710 Hull – Kings Cross cancelled throughout

1Y44 1625 Newcastle – Kings Cross cancelled throughout

1E21 1530 Edinburgh – Kings Cross last reported Temple Hirst 1833 (25 late)

1A45 1745 Leeds – Kings Cross last reported Doncaster 1821 (5 late)

1Y90 1801 York – Kings Cross not yet departed

1A46 1815 Leeds – Kings Cross cancelled throughout

1E23 1630 Edinburgh – Kings Cross cancelled throughout

Various other delays approaching Kings Cross due to station congestion (affected most services between 30 and 90 minutes).

oh dear, 30777 was coming from the Wensleydale Railway this morning, as soon as I heard about the incident, I wondered if she was involved!

And just to put a lid on it all, the A1 is closed due to a light aircraft crashing near Sibston just north of P'boro, having clipped an electricty pylon. There were concerns as to the safety and stability of the pylon, too late for the pilot.

Reports suggest that the A1 will not reopen until lunchtime tomorrow (Saturday).

I hate to mention this, but I wonder how long it might be before certain TOCs lobby for main line steam trips to be banned?

(It might be tin hat time)

G'Day Gents

In the days of 'Real' railways and railway managers, a lot of those trains would have been re-routed around the 'Danger' area, IE, via Lincoln, or Nottingham, to Doncaster, but with today's 'tram setup' there's never any locos about to do the towing and I don't think there's the WILL to do anything other than cancel trains, because that's the cheapest option

manna

manna wrote:G'Day Gents

In the days of 'Real' railways and railway managers, a lot of those trains would have been re-routed around the 'Danger' area, IE, via Lincoln, or Nottingham, to Doncaster, but with today's 'tram setup' there's never any locos about to do the towing and I don't think there's the WILL to do anything other than cancel trains, because that's the cheapest option

manna

... and probably a much-reduced level of crew's route knowledge of diversionary routes. Add to that virtual absence over many years now, of standby traction power, stock/trainsets, and crews for economic reasons, and (I suspect) a modern reluctance to keep everything running as far as it can, resulting in risk of getting most of your trains queued up in one area (why else start keeping trains at KX from the 1530 onwards when the line was always clear at least as far as Grantham?), and there you are.

It looks like there was no East Coast departure frrom KX between (actual times) 1508 and 1645, then only 3 between 1700-1800; 2 in th following hour, and 3 between 1900 and 2000.

By 20:45, there had been recorded (total of all TOCs) : 21 trains cancelled, about 275 delayed, and around 4,400 minutes lost.
Latest arrival at KX, the 0952 from Aberdeen, 2 hrs. 29m. late at destination (after apparently running via Lincoln! , leaving Doncaster 1 hr. late).

Deleted

Micky wrote: It just confirms what some of us already know that the railways today are managed and staffed in the main by NON-railway minded people

In actual fact in recent times 'experienced' signalling staff of over 10 years and more service are now quite often routinely 'passed over' for promotion in to power boxes or IECC work stations around the country at job interviews in favour of people of a NON-railway background and who believe it or not have yet to go through the signalling school at the job interview rather then take on the 'experienced' signaller

How on earth has it come to this?

Because non railway background people will never have the knowledge to embarrass their bosses by highlighting said bosses ignorance.

Deleted

But if they charge the steam loco operators with all the lost time, wont that run into many hundreds of thousands in compensation to passengers on delayed/cancelled trains?

My question is, why are steam loco light engine moves allowed on the mainline in full running order? Why not have them in light steam and force the operating company to hire a diesel to tow them?

Or am I missing something?

It would actually be cheaper to move one engine by low loader than light engine. Two? Hmm. Dodgy.

I can only assume that there is some cost issue here but, seeing as there always a few "spot hire" firms aound providing Power by the Hour so to speak, I reackon light steam with a diesel is the way forward, SS.

Now, is there a true railwayman in the Railway management?

(silence)

Anywhere?

(more silence)

Shuffles off stage looking dejected.

The latest word is that 70013 has been allowed to continue south towed by diesel but 30777 has been stopped at Newark.
The possibility of a corroded spark arrestor on the ash pan has been mentioned.
This would also possibly cause a fire even if the engine was in light steam under tow.

Blink Bonny wrote: Now, is there a true railwayman in the Railway management?

(silence)

Anywhere?

(more silence)

Shuffles off stage looking dejected.

Well i think the last old time B.R. senior manager who talked any sense about the railways was Mr.Rayner an ex-London Midland Region senior manager under B.R. was-

told to clear his desk about 11 or 12 years ago i believe?

Since then we've had some geezer a few years ago who came from the oil industry as well as a few others from NON-railway backgounds

G'Day Gents

I wonder when was the last time someone cut the line-side Grass !!!!! Diesels and Electrics both emit sparks.

manna

That'll teach them for keeping steam on the southern half of the ECML - it would never have happened up here cos everything is too wet to burn