The LNER Encyclopedia

http://www.raib.gov.uk/publications/cur ... tional.cfm

Just be grateful, like me, that you were nowhere near at the time - must have been awful

Thanks for posting that, it is an interesting sequence of events. Is one to take it therefore that the train can be moved once the emergency door release can be used, as I thought that under normal conditions the doors would cause the brakes to come on and stay on? Perhaps I am mistaken in this.

The electrostar trains do seem to suffer with power failures when the wires or 3rd rail goes down and then they don't come back once the juice is available again. I would not have wanted to be there and I am sorry for all who were.

CVR1865 wrote: Is one to take it therefore that the train can be moved once the emergency door release can be used, as I thought that under normal conditions the doors would cause the brakes to come on and stay on? Perhaps I am mistaken in this.

No, CVR, you're not mistaken. I think it's still the case that a unit can take power and move if the driver first operates the TIS (Traction Interlock Switch) but it's highly unusual - if not highly irregular - to move a train conveying passengers with any of the power doors open . No doubt that's one of the reasons the RAIB will be carrying out their own investigation. Unfortunately that agency isn't noted for the speed with which they produce reports so we may have to wait until next year to see it.

At our last 'briefing day' we were made aware of a reported incident that came to light sometime in the last 12-18 months of a EMU PASSENGER train departing Liverpool street station wth ALL THE DOORS WIDE OPEN i think the train was eventually stopped on Bethnal green bank fortunately no one fell out of the train in the meantime while the train was on the move

These things do happen sometimes

Here's another show I'm glad to have missed, particularly so as I travelled home out of Waterloo the evening before. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-13723005

I probably get a bit of 'flax' for saying this but sometimes when working in a s/box in the past (B.R. days especially) it could be quite 'enjoyable' working a s/box when there was 'an occurrence' going on like a train thats failed or a points failure or track circuit failure it's surprising 'how fast the time goes' and an hour can seem like 10 minutes it certainly 'livens up' a dull shift!

One of the most 'memorable' weeks i had was when i was at Camden Road back in the mid/late 1990s i forget exactly what had happened but for nearly a week there was NOTHING MOVING trainwise through Camden Road and that was a very 'enjoyable week' indeed with just about a who's who of former L.M.R. manager's & signalmen visiting the box during that week, never a dull moment and especially nice with NO TRAINS lovely

Nowadays i'm all for the 'quiet life' come in do the job without incident and go home

Micky wrote:I probably get a bit of 'flax' for saying this but sometimes when working in a s/box in the past (B.R. days especially) it could be quite 'enjoyable' working a s/box when there was 'an occurrence' going on like a train thats failed or a points failure or track circuit failure it's surprising 'how fast the time goes' and an hour can seem like 10 minutes it certainly 'livens up' a dull shift!

One of the most 'memorable' weeks i had was when i was at Camden Road back in the mid/late 1990s i forget exactly what had happened but for nearly a week there was NOTHING MOVING trainwise through Camden Road and that was a very 'enjoyable week' indeed with just about a who's who of former L.M.R. manager's & signalmen visiting the box during that week, never a dull moment and especially nice with NO TRAINS lovely

Nowadays i'm all for the 'quiet life' come in do the job without incident and go home

Camden Road, Micky, and Mr Gunn... those were the days.

Old 'Gunney' he wanted shooting that bloke! It wouldn't surprise me if he's on this forum

Yeah we had one of your old mucker's show up at Camden that week Bob 'shinny shoes' Denton as well as just about anybody who was anybody

There was a Watford/Bletchley signalman who showed up who went by the nickname of 'The Bishop' i always forgot his first name but he worked around the NLL in the late 1980s as well as a whole host of other's

Like signalmen use to say ''It would be a great job if there wasn't any trains running!''

it was a regular sight on the tyneside electrics to see the sliding doors open and some enterprising schoolboy{s} changing carriages whilst on the move as most of the doors were stiff to open and shut on the met-cam units, they where supposed to be retro fitted to be motorman/gaurd operated but ww11 got in the way then br never bothered

G'Day Gents

Here in SA, back in the 60's a new dmu was introduced, with hand operated sliding doors, an with the advent of another hot summers day ALL the doors would be wide open ! and the train would be barreling along at 60mph, no H&S, no worries

manna

PS. the center car was a Ex steam hauled coach, with balconies each end and steps down track level

Back around 1987 or 88 i was working DALSTON (formerly WESTERN JUNCTION) s/box one Saturday afternoon when a westbound EMU an ex-southern region x2 car unit (they worked NLL services for a few years in the late 1980s/early 1990s before being replaced by 313 EMUs) went passed the box when i noticed as the rear unit passed 2 teenager boy's hanging on to the back of the unit by a set of hand-rails!. Thats when i first heard the expression TRAIN SURFING little b******ds

[quote=

There was a Watford/Bletchley signalman who showed up who went by the nickname of 'The Bishop' i always forgot his first name but he worked around the NLL in the late 1980s as well as a whole host of other's

[/quote]

Would that be Phil Baines, by any chance? He looks like a shiite militia man? Now a MOM at Watford, I believe. Glad I've not been back to look at Bletchley or Watford boxes since I retired, it would be upsetting to see the tiny bit of railway they control now. Really liked those NX panels, you could sit at the back and see the lot.

Yeah that was/is the fella Phil Baines he knocked around the NLL back in the late 1980s but he really was a WCML relief-signalman. We had several fella's from other areas come and help us out around the mid/late 1980s cos of a shortage of signalmen around the NLL (plenty of 12 hrs shifts going) 3 or 4 were off the Bedford - Bletchley branch.

hq1hitchin wrote:http://www.raib.gov.uk/publications/cur ... tional.cfm

Just be grateful, like me, that you were nowhere near at the time - must have been awful

Yes awful indeed, and this kind of passenger treatment seems to be on the increase now that the operating companies are being run like airlines, and maximising profits to the exclusion of all else.

The poor old fare payers seem not to be considered at all when it comes to efficiency savings and cutting spare stock to the bare minimum. Why should fare payers sit on a stationary train for 4 hours while incompetent managers run around like headless chickens trying to minimise as much extra expense as possible?

The ticket pays for travel to the destination, not just for the privilege of sitting on the train and if diabetics or pregnant women are being ignored by jobsworth staff then it is only natural for decent and considerate members of the public to be concerned for their welfare.

The sooner they get rid of this ridiculous privatisation farce, and re-nationalise the railways, the better and maybe the fare paying public will once again come first.

Without any necessarily particular relevance to this incident, I think that, over say the last 25 years : -
- increasing incompatibility of different rolling stock (for assisting failed trains purposes) using the same route,
- far more complex on-board systems (including heating/ventilation/air-conditioning),
- the frequent (but not universal) absence of opening windows, and
- the unsurprising paucity of self-powered traction that can be deployed for the very occasional rescue mission needed on largely electrified routes deprived of power, -

are all factors that contribute to this sort of modern-day incident having far more potential to become an extraordinarily protracted and complex affair, leading to very difficult circumstances for passengers, those staff on-site, and those situated remotely trying to take the right decisions, alike, in order to overcome the problems and get things moving again.

This is not to denigrate the efforts of staff having first-hand involvement at the time : I think that instances of anyone such not acting to the best of their ability in decisions and actions in trying to reach resolution would be very few indeed.
In the quoted recent case, I would feel confident that the Thameslink staff involved, particularly those on-site including technical, but most definitely the driver, would have felt under immense pressure, as the clock ticked on and on, to finally extricate the train and its passengers, many traumatised in various ways and degrees, from its difficult location after so long.

Some of us may recall the incident around Huntingdon not so long ago when a pantograph/overhead Line dewirement incident led to several trains becoming marooned, with at least one GNER set being stationary without auxiliary systems power, for - four hours was it? - and as a largely enclosed unit, conditions in the passenger accommodation became intolerable, yet the train staff faced the conflict of needing fresh air ingress, but the then operating instructions (doubtless not forseeing such a situation, and probably since amended) not permitting doors to be opened.
When introduced (and maybe still), Virgin's Pendolino Class 390 units were considered a 'sealed train' as far as air supply and temperature were concerned, presumably so that air-con/heat could be controlled most effectively : Fine as long as the exterior power supply and/or back-up batteries last, but after that ....

The understandable urge of some passengers, marooned for several hours, and feeling frustration, pressure of not being able to get to where they should have been, elements of claustrophobia, or just helplessness, to get out by using emergency door releases causes its own problems, and on-board staff can have great difficulty stemming the 'If they can get out, so can I' syndrome. And if they're in a conductor-rail electrified area, they can be in additional danger, and getting the juice off for their safety can extend the area of disruption.
Paradoxically, passengers on the track of their own volition can end up being the only thing preventing getting the show moving again, if the original problems have been overcome: Of course movements cannot recommence until everyone is sure that the line is clear of people.

Then when passengers put through such horrendous delays finally (if not detrained and left the railway at some other point) somehow land at a station (not necessarily their destination, or even one where sudden large numbers can be satisfactorily handled), resident staffing levels (if any, especially at certain times of day) or mobile staff called-in (if they can be arranged in time, given sometimes short notice of a train becoming able to move to a particular station), more often than not are understandably inadequate for, or logistically cannot satisfactorily handle, the needs of large numbers of passengers needing assistance after a prolonged hold-up experience.

This latter point has, I think, been demonstrated again just in the last few days, when Stagecoach South West Trains' passengers have had an, at times, tough week, culminating in last Thursday (09th) evening's severe hold-ups, reportedly through loss of signalling control by Wimbledon box of a large area somewhere in the Clapham-Waterloo area, plus loss of 3rd-rail power beyond Woking all around the Ash/Farnborough area, apparently through vandalism attack on cabling. This led to trains becoming stopped for very long periods, reportedly becoming as much as six hours late (I'm confident that some reached at least four hours : E.g. the 18:12 ex Waterloo-Alton got to destination at about 23:45). See various BBC News items here : http://www.bbc.co.uk/search/news/?q=Waterloo