City of Truro - The truth

[x568wcn]

We all know that City of Truro was the first loco to get over 100mph, but Scotsman is the first autenticated, the truth is that where Truro gained the 100mph there was a 70mph speed limit so it was all kept hush hush and not written down!

[richard]

Flying Scotsman was also running with a much larger train - the LNER were basically trialling the concept of a high-speed inter city service hauled by steam Pacifics. Deemed a success, the trials led to the development of the A4 and Silver Jubilee services.

In what form is the City of Truro paperwork. I was under the impression that it was a bit sketchy.

To put a cat among the pigeons, you do know that Mallard never reached 126mph? That was a bit of historical revisionism from BR when they put the plaque on it.
Off the top of my head, I think 125.5mph was all that was claimed at the time - just enough to beat the German record. The most generous of those who have looked over the records since, think Mallard might have hit 126mph for a sleeper-or-two's length. Too dubious and transitory for a record.


Richard

[Bullhead]

We all know that City of Truro was the first loco to get over 100mph, but Scotsman is the first autenticated, the truth is that where Truro gained the 100mph there was a 70mph speed limit so it was all kept hush hush and not written down!

I thought it was sister A3, "Papyrus" (see http://germansteam.info/tonup.html)?

[x568wcn]

That's what I heard, and it was Scotsman.

Mallard did reach 126 mph, but only for a split second but Gresley himself never accepted this top speed as he flet it may have been affected by the accuracy of the dynamometer.

Does anyone know the history of the Dynamometer car behind Mallard, as it is supposed to be 'The Actual One' but we all know how the tender is renumbered to be the actual one, even though the tender vertually survived, as it was attached to 4485, Miles Beevor, which when scrapped was taken down to Crewe, and the parts used to preserve Sir Nigel Gresley. And infact, the coupled wheels from Miles Beevor are the ones on Sir Nigel Gresley!

[richard]

Yes it is the right one!

Dynamometer cars are actually rare beasties. Just before Grouping, there were more railway companies than dynamometer cars!

They would be loaned between companies, eg. the Churchward loaned the GWR car to W.Worsdell on the NER, and as it had to pass over GNR rails, Ivatt borrowed it along the way to test his Atlantics!
This particular loan led to the NER building its own. This is the one that was attached to Mallard, and is currently in the NRM.

The NER car first ran in March 1906, and was a fairly close copy of the GWR car. Built at York, and out-fitted at Gateshead, it was one of the last clerestory vehicles built on the NER.

Ten cars survived into BR ownership (one L&Y, 2 LNER, 3 LMS, 4 WR). All except the L&YR were adapted for 100mph running, although really they were becoming outdated and only really suitable for carrying measuring equipment at this stage. BR adapted two Mk.2 brake coaches to be used as dynamometer cars for 125mph testing.

There's an extensive (33 page) article on dynamometer cars from the LNER perspective in the latest "Gresley Observer" (No. 138, v44, Autumn 2005). Written by a BR testing engineer, there's a first account of BR-era testing of the Middlesborough - Consett molten steel trains. They lost a 'torpedo' carrier, but were lucky not to lose a historic WR dynamometer car in the process!


Richard

[CVR1865]

[quote="Bullhead"][quote="x568wcn"]

I thought it was sister A3, "Papyrus"

the link provides very good evidence. you can certainly understand the LNER's willingness to go with the magic three figures. i had always understood it as the runs by scotsman and papyrus were to evalute the timing of non-stop inter city trains but also to evaluate the differences between the A1 and A3 locos to assertain the viability for the non stop Flying Scotsman train, all to do with coal consumption.

I don't care too much what the experts think i still want to believe that Scotsman hit 100 and Mallard 126.

[Tom Quayle]

City of Braso is now the givern name in the North (KWVR) and if it needs banking assistance with a 6 coach load out of Keigthley Iam serprised it got its train moving in the 1st place lol. GWR= Gresley Was Right lol.

[PaulG]

"We all know that City of Truro was the first loco to get over 100mph"

I know that this statement on an LNER Group is possibly ment to "get the fur flying", but from what I have read over the past 40 years, City of Truro probably didn't reach 100mph and the issue of line speed has been mentioned.

Since I first became interested in railways in the late 1950's/early 1960's this has been a subject of much debate - and no doubt will continue for ever, the fact is we will never know!

Regards

Paul

[Wandering1500]

To put it simply, if Truro did get to 100+, she'd had had to be making more power than a Deltic...

..besides, everyone knows it was an L&Y Highflyer

[x568wcn]

Acording to the NRM
In 1934, Flying Scotsman achieved the first authenticated 100mph (160 kmph) by a steam locomotive. The record was made as part of a proving test for the introduction of high-speed, streamlined expresses between London, Newcastle and Leeds. However, Nigel Gresley ensured that when Flying Scotsman steamed into Kings Cross the Press were there to record the achievement.

And Truro was the first over 100, it was never writtern down as there was a 70mph speed limit, and with the state of the rails, it was kept quiet!

[LNERandBR]

Truros Speed isnt authenticated because it didnt have a dynometer car behind it. The speed was recorded by some guy with a stop watch. That method has alot of veribles so it dosen't stand up against the readings form dynometer cars.

[x568wcn]

Accoring to the April edition of Railway Modeller, it was Scotsman, it says in a section on the gresley A3 Pacific under Achievments;

No.4472 Flying Scotsman was the first steam loco officially to be recorded at 100mph on 30th November 1934; it was however, still an A1 at the time. This was timed between Leeds and Kings Cross. it also set a Kings Cross to Leeds record that stood for 30 years.
On March 5th 1935, A3 No.2750 Papyrus broke the record for a Kings Cross-Newcastle-Kings Cross run at 108mph on Stoke Bank.
The mileage record holder was No.60106 Flying Fox at more than 2,600,000 miles.

[Green Arrow]

Papyrus was supposed to be the fastest no streamlined locomotive ever built...funny how no-one bothered preserving it.

[richard]

I think the Pensylvannia Railroad might have something to say to that

It is thought that a number of US types regularly broke 100mph during the 20th Century (iirc there's a 19th century claim but it is rather spurious). However, there was never the record-breaking fever like the UK, and recordings were not made. I think thoughts of safety might have been involved.

Although streamlining was all the rage for the later passenger types, it was all for show. The US advantage was in the larger loading gauge.
There were probably a number of US steam locomotives that could have had a decent crack at 120mph if anyone had bothered to try it.


Richard

[Green Arrow]

Ah, yes, the claim of 127mph!

Which engine was that, anyway?