Hengist - new build

John B · Post by **John B** » Sun Jun 15, 2008 10:58 am

I have only just learned of the building of a new 6MT "Clan" pacific, to be called "Hengist".

Here is the website and I apologise if everyone knows about this project, even though I subscribe to the UK's Heritage Railway magazine I have seen no mention of it.

http://72010-hengist.org/

This seems to be a major project, possibly overshadowed by Tornado.

wehf100 · Post by **wehf100** » Mon Jun 16, 2008 11:34 pm

HENGIST is a good name for a BRITANNIA class loco, but surely Hengist, a supposed Kent king who acted as a mercenary against the Picts, isn't a figure quite appropriate for a 'Clan' class loco?!

interesting website- wish I was a multi millionaire who could meaningfully assist the project!

52D · Post by **52D** » Mon Jun 16, 2008 11:53 pm

The name chosen was to suit the region where the next build of clans was going to be allocated ie southern.

Flamingo · Post by **Flamingo** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 9:21 am

In the mid-1950s there was a BR proposal to build another 15 Clans, These would have been nos. 72010-72024, of which the first 5 were intended for the Southern Region and the remainder were for Scotland. Names were announced for all 15 engines. Hengist was to be the first of the SR batch. Horsa was another of the proposed names. The 10 for Scotland would have received Clan names.

Perhaps because the original 10 Clans proved disappointing BR had second thoughts and the second batch was never built. Why, with 140 Pacifics of its own already in service, anyone thought that the Southern would have wanted 5 more of BR design is a mystery. The London Midland Region with a far greater route mileage than the SR managed with only 50 Pacifics of its own plus some Britannias. In any case work on the Southern's Kent Coast electification scheme began soon after the Clans were cancelled anyway.

Bullhead · Post by **Bullhead** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 11:52 am

The proposed names for the cancelled batch were -

Southern Region: 72010 Hengist, 72011 Horsa, 72012 Canute, 72013 Wildfire, 72014 Firebrand.

Scottish Region: 72015 Clan Colquhoun, 72016 Clan Graham, 72017 Clan MacDougall, 72018 Clan MacLean, 72019 Clan Douglas, 72020 Clan Gordon, 72021 Clan Hamilton, 72022 Clan Kennedy, 72023 Clan Lindsay, 72024 Clan Scott.

Interestingly, 72001 "Clan Cameron" is said to be the only pacific to have traversed the West Highland Line.

LNER Fan 60008 · Post by **LNER Fan 60008** » Mon Jun 23, 2008 6:58 pm

Ah, I remember this. Would the new locomotive be better than the originals, which were basically duds?

Bryan · Post by **Bryan** » Mon Jun 23, 2008 8:26 pm

Just a point
Various comments have been made regarding these engines working on the Southern and the LM.
Did they actually work on the LNE?
If not why are they being discussed here?

Bullhead · Post by **Bullhead** » Mon Jun 23, 2008 8:46 pm

Bryan wrote:Did they actually work on the LNE? If not why are they being discussed here?

Not generally, but see my comment about "Clan Cameron" being the only Pacific ever to work over the (NBR/LNER) West Highland Line to Fort William.

Post by **richard** » Mon Jun 23, 2008 9:55 pm

Bryan: I was thinking the same - I'm going to move the thread over to the general railway folder.

Richard

shinglesau · Post by **shinglesau** » Tue Jun 24, 2008 12:30 pm

72009 Clan Stewart was allocated to Stratford in September 1958. During this time it carried out trials on the ex GER where it worked the "Essex Coast Express". It didn't make much of an impression, which is hardly surprising given the success of the Britannias on this line and the arrival of the first main line diesels. Basically the trial didn't stand a chance.

hq1hitchin · Post by **hq1hitchin** » Tue Jun 24, 2008 7:21 pm

Were they particularly duds?. I know that Britannias were recieved with delight on the GE but they weren't very well thought of on the LNW section of the LM, particularly when they were on the Holyhead boat trains through to Euston. Think that was more to do with dirty, dusty, cabs rather than much else. Were any of the Standards really not 'fit for purpose? Dennis Redrup of Watford used to quote the number of a Watford Class 4 std tank (forgotten the number - durrr!) which could regularly reach 90 mph on the UFL passing the Mc Vities factory in sunny Willesden! Were the Clans just run of the mill,nothing spectacular, low maintenance eingines?

hq1hitchin · Post by **hq1hitchin** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 7:16 am

Should have said to discount the Crostis - the boilers were terrible on them and gave a lot of the old Wellingborough blokes bronchial problems with smoke filling the cabs all the time, whilst the Duke was a superb design but the ashpan wasn't made and fitted as per the drawings - is that correct?

shinglesau · Post by **shinglesau** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 12:07 pm

Based on "The Book of the BR Standards" it appears that opinions on the attributes and/or deficiencies of the Clans ranged widely. They seem to have been a tricky engine to handle, performance was seldom better than average and if they did steam well it was the coal consumption that suffered. Having only 10 in the class didn't help matters. Of all the Standards, they were probably the least needed as there were more than enough other classes to cover their duties.

Going back to 72009's short stint on the ex GER, what chance did a Class 6 of average performance stand against the very successful & popular Britannias?

hq1hitchin · Post by **hq1hitchin** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 5:23 pm

Bit of a strange choice, right enough, but I always have difficulty identifying a Peppercorn A2 from an A1, ha ha

So can we have a Gresley V4 next , please, or failing that, a LMS Patriot, with parallel boiler?

Was I dreaming or did some group come up with a scheme to recreate the LMS diesel, 10000, using bits from other EE locos?

60041 · Post by **60041** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 12:32 am

My main interest is steam, but 10000 would be interesting. I was at a talk once given by Helen Ashby from the NRM, and I asked her what the thing that the NRM most regretted not having was, and she said 10000