The LNER Encyclopedia

Hi all.

A recent post on the BRCS groups.io about available resources for railway operations in since 1948 made me think about what could be done to improve the situation.

Robert Carroll has done an amazing job on that group to provide copies of Carriage Working Notices, Notes for loading of Vans, and I think even a few mu diagrams too.

One of the most rare is loco diagrams. Some can be found on society websites and some other grpups that deal with a specific area. Something that would be useful would be some sort of database/repository similar to what Robert has done.

I have a few diagrams that I would be willing to include/add to such a collection but where or how this could be done I'm not sure. Also, I don't know who would be willing to add to this and anyone with the skills to compile this.

Any ideas?

Stu

PS; i have put this up on several other groups, so sorry if you have seen it before.

Stu are you only interested in B.R. loco diagrams on the Eastern Region and the GE area in particular from the 1950s or are you interested in loco diagrams from the 1960s & 1970s as well?. I have posted a few 'from memory' on here down the years from Kings Cross loco during the 1974-75 era.

Hi Mickey

Any diagrams, from any era, from any area or region would be appreciated.

Stu

I can't remember the actual diagram numbers Stu but I can still remember a few freight and passenger diagrams at Kings Cross during the 1974-75 period. I shall post several diagrams later although I have posted them previously in the past.

Kings Cross diagrams 1974-75

9B69 Kings Cross Goods yard depart around 9:30-9:45am for Temple Mills Monday-Friday. A blue livered class 31 loco with a consist of a front and rear brake van due to running round at Finsbury Park between Finsbury Park No.3 & No.2 s/boxes along with box vans, mineral wagons and flat bogie boolster wagons. After departing Finsbury Park the train went via Finsbury Park No.1 joining the north London line at Canonbury Junction, Western Junction (at Dalston) Homerton, Victoria Park, Lee Junction, Temple Mills East Junction arriving at Manor yard Temple Mills around 11:00am

The return working may have kept the same headcode which had a similar consist that the outward journey brought from Kings Cross Goods yard with the train departing Temple Mills around midday or shortly after midday and heading back the same way as it came across the north London line and turning right at Canonbury Junction and again running round at Finsbury Park between Finsbury Park No.3 & Finsbury Park No.2 s/boxes then going 'up the creep up' at Ashburton Grove s/box and back towards Kings Cross Goods yard arriving in 'the goods yard' around 1:30pm.

7B66 Kings Cross Goods yard depart around 2:45am for Huntingdon Tuesday-Friday (maybe Saturday?). A blue livered class 31 with a consist of the front portion consisting of 4 or 5 GUVs & BGs and the rear portion consisting of 7 or 8 mineral wagons of coke and a brake van. The rear portion of the brake van and 7 or 8 mineral wagons were detached at Welwyn Garden City and left in the Up yard on one of the sidings roads while the front portion of the loco and GUVs & BGs went forward as 6B66 departing WGC around 3:30-3:40am and stopping at Hitchin and St.Neots before arriving at Huntingdon around 5:00am and detaching the vans.

The return working that I remember when I was on this train as a secondman we departed Huntingdon 'light engine' and ran light engine back up to Kings Cross Goods yard I think or maybe Kings Cross passenger loco I can't honestly remember 47-48 years later?.

Kings Cross diagrams 1974-75

1B66 the first outward trip of 'The double-Cambridge' departed Kings Cross at 11:30am for Cambridge Monday-Friday. The train was hauled by a blue livered class 46 'Peak' and consisted of around 8-9 blue/grey B.R.Mk1s with a buffet car included in the train and arrived at Cambridge at around 1:00pm.

The return working departed Cambridge at 1:30pm arriving back at Kings Cross up the current platform no.7 at around 3:00pm.

1B66 the second outward trip of 'The double-Cambridge' departed Kings Cross at 3:30pm for Cambridge Monday-Friday with the same consist as above and arrived at Cambridge at around 5:00pm.

The return working departed Cambridge at 5:30pm arriving back at Kings Cross up the current platform no.7 at around 7:00pm.

The locos secondman did the coupling & uncoupling at Cambridge on Cambridge diagrams at Kings Cross which was normal on the GE/LNER/ER

During the late 1960s and early/mid 1970s Kings Cross had a number of loco hauled Moorgate and Kings Cross suburban workings during the weekday morning and evening peaks although I can't recall any specific diagrams off hand?. During the morning peak (07:00-09:30) a small number of loco hauled suburban trains formed of blue livered class 31s usually hauling 6 or 7 non-corridoor slam door coaches (block enders) in blue livery although by 1969-70 a diminishing number of block ender coaches were still running in moroon livery although by 1971 all the the block enders were in blue livery. These suburban loco hauled trains originated from either WGC and Hatfield on the main line or Hertford North and Cuffley on the Hertford loop and all of them heading either to Moorgate over the widen lines or several trains terminated in the suburban platforms at Kings Cross.

During the weekday evening peak (16:30-19:00) the same trains as above departed from either Moorgate on the widen lines or Kings Cross suburban platforms heading for either Hatfield and WGC or Cuffley and Hertford North where the empty stock from these trains would be stabled overnight at the location where the train terminated although the trains loco wouldn't remain with the stabled train overnight but would either go back light engine to Kings Cross or go onto work another diagram.

One diagram on the above workings that I do remember working on as a secondman a number of times during the summer/autumn of 1974 was a diagram where by my driver and myself would take a class 31 loco from Finsbury Park MPD and then go light engine to Cuffley on the Hertford loop where we worked a train of block ender stock as a passenger train departing Cuffley sometime after 8:00am possibly around 8:15am up to Moorgate over the widen lines because I remember being on that diagram a number of times possibly 7 or 8 times during that summer/autumn of 1974. Also I remember on a couple of occasions during that same time period the train my driver and myself were working on started from Hertford North during the morning peak.

Also I remember working as a secondman on quite a few evening peak trains of 'block enders' during the second half of 1974 and into 1975 from Moorgate over the widen lines with a blue livered class 31 although I remember the journey fairly clearly from Moorgate over the widen lines to Kings Cross platform no.16 (later no.14) on the 'hotel curve' but after departing Kings Cross it becomes a bit more forgetful although we either terminated at WGC or Hertford North one or the other?.

Another Kings Cross no.2 link diagram that I remember working as a secondman during three days during one week in the summer of 1975 was a weekday main line passenger diagram on a Kings Cross-Leeds return working.

We went Down road with an express departing Kings Cross around 11:30am with a blue livered class 47 hauling mainly a rake of blue/grey B.R.Mk2s arriving at Leeds city station possibly around 1:30-2:0pm and then after a PNB (Physical Needs Break i.e. a can of tea and sandwiches and a visit to the gents) and a short stopover at Leeds station the return working was with a class 55 Deltic with a train of blue/grey B.R.Mk2s departing Leeds city station around 5:00pm and arriving back up Kings Cross around 7:00pm.

The road from 'Donny' to Leeds city was fairly boring of mile after mile of double-track and the only vaguely interesting part of the route was after leving Doncaster and turning off the GN main line was the area at Bentley crossing s/box after that it was quite boring until approaching and arriving at Leeds city station.

A job that I liked and worked a handful of times as a secondman was the return working of 'the fish' up road from Doncaster during the summer of 1975.
This was a no.3 link job at Kings Cross for both a driver and secondman from that link which involved working a semi-fast express down road from Kings Cross stopping at Peterborough, Grantham and Doncaster where the Kings Cross train crew was relieved by Doncaster men. The train conissted of a blue livered class 47 and maybe a rake of mostly B.R.Mk1s (maybe a few B.R.Mk2s as well?) and departed 'the cross' sometime around 8:00pm I can't remember the actual time?. Anyway the return working was with 'the fish' back from 'Donny' to Kings Cross Goods yard.

The fish...

After working the first part of the diagram down to Doncaster and being relieved by Doncaster men my driver and the train guard would make our way over to the train crews messroom on the Up side platforms and sit in the messroom drinking a can of tea (the guard made his own tea) and waited for 'the fish' to arrive from Immingham which was usually around midnight at Doncaster in the Up fast line outside the train crews messroom. Around midnight a class 40 'whistler' (an English Electric type 4) would pull up to a stand on the Up fast line outside the train crews messroom where my driver and our guard would climb up into the cab of the loco (the guard would go in the back cab) and after a quick handover the 'northern train crew' would get off the loco and with a nice green colour light signal straight ahead of our train at the south end of Doncaster station and a blast on the locos horn it was 'right way' Kings Cross Goods yard next stop 156 miles to the south!.

During the summer of 1975 'the fish' usually had a good run up road from 'Donny' all the way although sometimes between Doncaster and Hitchin which was still largely a mixture of semaphore signals and colour light signals except either side of Peterborough PSB area of control (Tallington to the north and Holme to the south) you would see a yellow colour light signal approaching in the far distance but usually it would turn to a green on approaching it nearer and I don't recall ever being stopped anywhere although we may have had several 'signal checks' but not actually being stopped I don't recall?. South of Hitchin it was all colour light signals except at both Holloway South Up and at Goods And Mineral Junction s/boxes but that was nearly at the very end of the run up from Doncaster.

Sometime a little time after 2:00am (maybe around 2:10am?) 'the fish' would be arriving on one of the arrival roads between Goods And Mineral Junction s/box and Five Arch shunting cabin in Kings Cross Goods yard where the train continued on for a short distance turning left up into the patoto market area where the class 40 would stop and was 'screwed down' by the locos handbrake and possibly left with the locos engine running although I can't remember if the loco was actually shut down or not?.

A bit of a 'funny' diagram at Kings Cross during 1975 for a driver and his secondman was a Saturday loco hauled job that had a blue livered class 47 going down road from Kings Cross to Peterborugh with a rake of B.R.Mk1s and possibly with a Mk1 buffet car as well in the consist(?) anyway the train concerned departed Kings Cross from memory during the latter half of the afternoon arriving at Peterborough 76 miles away about 90 minutes later possibly around 5:00-5:15pm(?) which was all very straight forward.

The return working was the 'funny bit' of the diagram which involved both the driver and his secondman working back up to Kings Cross on a Cravens unit either a x2 or x4 car configuration although I can't recall now which it was with both the driver and his secondman both sitting in the drivers compartment together?. From memory this train departed Peterborough around 6:00pm and I think a stop was made at Huntingdon then maybe Hitchin I am not sure if stops were made at St.Neots, Sandy and Biggleswade to be honest because it was about 47-48 years ago then after Hitchin I presume it was Stevenage, WGC, Hatfield and possibly Finsbury Park and finally Kings Cross.

Kings Cross had a number of Cambridge loco hauled jobs during the late 1960s and early/mid 1970s usually featuring by 1970 a blue livered class 31 hauling a rake of 8 or 9 B.R.Mk1s and including a buffet car in the consist with a headcode of 1B66 for the trains reporting numbers. Two 'Cambridge jobs' in particular that I liked were two late afternoon early evening jobs that I worked as a secondman on a number of occasions when I was in 4A link or gang as they were usually referred to by locomen at Kings Cross. The first train departed Kings Cross for Cambridge sometime before 5:00pm I recall arriving at Cambridge about 90 minutes later sometime before 6:30pm and the second train departed Kings Cross for Cambridge sometime before 6:00pm arriving at Cambridge about 90 minutes later sometime before 7:30pm although I can't remember these two trains actual departure times from Kings Cross some 47 or 48 years later?. On one of the diagrams the train crew had around 3 hours to waste at Cambridge before the return working back up to Kings Cross so it was a case of leaving the loco on a siding road at the back door of the BRSA club!.

One of the above diagrams worked a train back to Kings Cross departing Cambridge at 9:30pm I vaguely recall arriving back at Kings Cross at 11:00pm (and last orders in the BRSA club) while the second diagram departed Cambridge an hour later at 10:30pm arriving back at Kings Cross just before midnight.

With regards to station stops on the Down road journey I can't remember if we stopped at Finsbury Park(?) but after that it may have possibly been Hatfield although again I am not sure if we stopped at Hatfield(?) but we definitely stopped at WGC then Stevenage followed by Hitchin then Letchworth then Royston and finally Cambridge. The return journey going back Up road from Cambridge to Kings Cross was the same as the Down road stops.

During the summer and autumn of 1974 I was on those two jobs as a secondman a number of times and I liked them both...

Wow!

Thanks Mickey. That's alot of detail on these posts! Much appreciated.

If anyone else has some loco diagrams/workings or even dmu/emu workings they would be willing to contribute, please PM me.

Anyone with any ideas how this information could be shared with everyone, please comment on here as I'm not sure how we could do this.

Stu

No problem Stu I shall try and post a few more jobs.

I had a ride on several Deltics during my time as a secondman at Kings Cross between 1974-75 and eventually made it into no.2 link by the summer of 1975 which was the Kings Cross-York & Leeds link anyway on at least two occasions or possibly three occasions during one week that summer on a return Kings Cross-Leeds-Kings Cross working which had a blue livered class 47 going down to Leeds and departing Kings Cross around 11:00am but from Leeds going back up to Kings Cross it was a Deltic departing Leeds around 5:00pm and arriving back in Kings Cross at around 7:00pm a daylight run all the way. Also during that same summer of 1975 by chance I 'fell in' for a Kings Cross Newcastle return working one Friday night during 1975 when the booked secondman for the job 'blew it in' and the foreman asked me to go on the 1:00am Newcastle 'up no.8' (formerly no.10 platform) because I was spare that evening anyway the 1:00am Kings Cross-Newcastle that night had a blue livered class 47 on the front going down road which was mostly in darkness until about the last hour it became daylight arriving at Newcastle around 6:00am on a Saturday morning but on the return journey back up to Kings Cross on the Saturday night from Newcastle to Kings Cross it was on 'The 1st Mails' we had a class 55 Deltic on the front (I think this train originated from Aberdeen and my driver and myself relieved a 'northern' loco crew at Newcastle station) anyway this train was a night time run all the way arriving back up Kings Cross at around 3:20am up no.1 platform to a near deserted terminus. Anyway I always wished I had made a note of those Deltics that I had rode on in traffic out of interest?.

At Kings Cross occasionally as a secondman in the lower links such as no.5 link you occasionally would acompany a driver in either bringing a Deltic from the passenger loco over to the main line station platforms or take a Deltic from the main line platforms over to passenger loco but it wasn't like actually riding on one of them on a main line run with a train of coaches behind the loco.

A couple of Hitchin jobs from the early/mid 1970s.

1.The 11:10pm loco hauled 'last down Cambridge' working of the day. The 11:10pm weekday Kings Cross to Cambridge train always departed from platform no.9 (formerly platform no.11 until 1972) from the west side suburban station and during the 1974-75 period I use to travel on this train quite a lot from Kings Cross as far as WGC when I was a secondman at Kings Cross during that time. The train was always hauled by a blue livered class 31 hauling a rake of 7 or 8 blue/grey B.R.Mk1 coaches although no buffet car was provided as it was a late night service. I remember that the train use to run along the Down fast line to WGC stopping at Finsbury Park, Hatfield and WGC where I got off but I would assume it also stopped at Stevenage, Hitchin, Letchworth and Royston before finally arriving at Cambridge I would assume around 12:40am?. Quite often with this particular train myself and another Kings Cross secondman who also lived in WGC would instead of sitting in the train we would walk up to the front of the train and ask the Hitchin driver if the both of us could ride in the 'back cab' of the class 31 as far as WGC which was always ok with the drivers that we asked because I presume the both of us were both dressed as loco secondmen which during 1974-75 meant usually wearing a British Rail small dark coloured locoman's jacket along with faded blue flared jeans and longish hair over the collar because all the young secondmen at Kings Cross were dressed and looked like that at that time ha ha ha...

2. The 11:40pm x4 car DMU the 'last down Hitchin' working of the day. The last weekday Kings Cross to Hitchin train which may have also run on a Saturday night as well was usually always formed by a x4 car Rolls Royce DMU set and was known by the signalmen at WGC s/box at least as "The sweep up" because I did hear it referred to by that name a couple of times when I was a 'box lad' at WGC s/box during 1972-74. I assume this train would have stopped at Finsbury Park possibly Potters Bar(?) Hatfield, WGC, Welwyn North, Knebworth and Stevenage before finally arriving at Hitchin I would assume around 12:30am?. I believe it stopped at WGC around 12:10am from memory?.

Here is a train that I remember see running on several occasions when I was at WGC s/box as a 'box lad' during 1972-74. The train concerned was a fairly long loose coupled goods train that originated from WGC Up sidings/yard and was bound for Whitemoor yard but I can't remember the trains headcode 48 years on?.

This train from memory may have run during late 1972 and the early months of 1973 although I can't remember exactly when it ran also it wasn't a every weekday working either. The train departed WGC during the early evening around 7:15-7:30pm because I think a 'margin' (a gap) existed on the Down fast line around that time so this train could run and it was always hauled by a blue livered class 31 with a mixture of wagons behind the loco including box vans, mineral wagons, bogie bolsters and a brake van in the rear, I suspect this train was a Hitchin loco crews diagram because it wasn't a Kings Cross diagram. Also this train required a bit of 'shunting about' before it departed WGC from the Up yard where it was signalled from. After leaving the Up yard it was routed onto the Up slow line as far as the 'Limit of Shunt' board where it then stopped and then after re-setting the road it was then propelled back into the Up slow line platform before stopping again after which it was signalled through the Up fast to Up slow line connection and also the main to main crossover onto the Down fast line towards Welwyn North and Hitchin.