The LNER Encyclopedia

Hi all,

On a recent trip to York, I was reminded of the factories in the town that produced sweets and chocolate. (Terry's and Roundtree's)

I know in the 1970s, this traffic had dedicated VDA vans with white roofs, I'm asking if in the 1950s (or earlier) if there where dedicated vans to the finished product? If these had white roofs? Or any other way of distinguishing them?

Also, I'm assuming these have been vans for a given distribution point (e.g. London for distribution in the home counties)? As part filled vans wouldn't make any sense.

Look forward to the discussion

Stu

I recall a television documentary some years ago on one of the York confectionery makers, in which there was a brief glimpse of a rail shipment yard in connection with an interviewed employee's dad who had worked on that side of the operation from post WW1 to retirement post WWII.

Murky monochrome film, and never made clear if this was pre or post WWII. There were numerous 12T general merchandise vans on view, with nothing special about any of them that could be discerned. (Standard caution regarding television documentaries, that yard scene might well be 'anywhere' in the UK, I couldn't recognise the rail yards of any confectionery manufacturer, or indeed those of most UK rail served industries.)

G'Day Gents

I used to shunt the Roundtrees wagons at Wood Green, by the Tunnelmouth, between 1971 and 1976, but don't remember any 'White roofs', just the usual scruffy old wagons.

manna

manna wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 9:13 pm I used to shunt the Roundtrees wagons at Wood Green, by the Tunnelmouth, between 1971 and 1976, but don't remember any 'White roofs', just the usual scruffy old wagons.

Ha ha I knew you would bring up the Bounds Green/Rowntrees shunt manna and why not I worked it a couple of times myself back around 1974. Legend has it that the Bounds Green yard shunter when he was shunting the Rowntrees sidings would bring the driver and secondman on the 350hp 0-6-0 pilot loco a box of Rowntrees sweets which from a faded memory I believe he did use to because I am fairly certain he came up to the loco one morning when I was on it and handed me a box of chocolate bars and Rowntrees fruit pastels!.

Wasn't those Rowntree wagons/vans during the early 1970s the same as the x4 wheeled Kellogg's cereal wagons that were usually seen at Marshmore south of Hatfield?.

G'Day Mickey

Yes, the longer wheelbase ones, OVB or something like that. As far as 'Legend' every time I shunted there we got something, remember 'Smarties' and I think once 'Walnut Whips', they went down well.

Funny but we never got anything form the 'Sand yard' !!!!!

manna

After shunting the Roundtrees sidings just north of the Hertford loop flyover at Wood Green the 350hp shunter would go back to Wood Green Up Box No.2 and then make it's way around to Bounds Green and the back of the shops to shunt the old Palace Gates area then after finishing shunting those sidings it would make it's way back around passed Wood Green Up Box No.2 and Wood Green Up Box No.4 to the south of Wood Green station and shunt the 'Sand sidings' after which on finishing shunting those sand roads it made it's way back passed Wood Green Up Box No.4 and Wood Green Up Box No.2 and stand on one of the Bounds Green sidings roads.

Thanks for the replies so far.

Not surprised by the 'bonus' for shunting the Roundtree's siding at Wood Green. Does anyone know when this siding opened? Also, was there any other sidings that anyone else can remember that they owned? I do know they had a factory in Norwich, but know nothing if it had a rail connection.

From looking at some OS maps of the period, I was surprised to find out that the Terry's factory wasn't rail served. Maybe its produce was loaded in vans in York's Goods Sheds?

Stu

manna wrote: ↑Fri Dec 03, 2021 6:39 pm As far as 'Legend' every time I shunted there we got something, remember 'Smarties' and I think once 'Walnut Whips', they went down well.

Yeah you are right manna the 'Walnut Whips' maybe 3 or 4 of them would be in a small cardboard box amongst the other goodies provided by the shunter.

That old Rowntree sidings situated on the Up side of the running lines north of Wood Green and just north of the Hertford loop flyover have long since been lifted probably during the 1980s?. The small layout was three straight roads in the open fanning from one set of points in a road to & from Wood Green Up Box No.2 with these three sidings roads running along side the outside brick wall of the Rowntrees building with a fourth siding road actually leading off the other three roads and leading into a undercover dead end loading dock bay inside the building. This entrance to the loading dock had a shutter that was usually pulled down when no shunting was taking place.

03piggs wrote: ↑Sat Dec 04, 2021 8:53 pm I do know they had a factory in Norwich, but know nothing if it had a rail connection.

The Norwich factory was just to the NE of the city centre, now is the site of a major shopping mall, and was not rail-connected. If any traffic was shipped out by rail it would need to be transported to Norwich Thorpe as by the 1950s the long-closed to passengers Victoria station was a Coal Concentration Depot and the old M&GN line from City station (a misnomer if ever there was one) went nowhere much.

Ah ok. Thanks for that 65447.

One question that's been bugging me with this kind of traffic is for the 1950s, and I hope I can get an answer for this; I know that these kind of factories would churn out quite a few box vans each day, but would they be for set distribution depots/central location? (eg; for London) or would they be for a set town? eg: one van from York for Colchester (for all the retailers of Roundtree products in the town and surrounding villages) I'm guessing this would not just be for chocolate, but other manufactures (eg. Bicycles, Paint, etc.)

Id appreciate any ideas of how this was done or being pointed in the direction of where I could get an answer to this.

Stu

G'Day Gents

Found a pic of part of the sidings next to Roundtrees, at Wood Green. Hard to believe, it is almost 100 years ago.


manna

That driver is probably letting that train roll along at a slowish speed his hand on the loco brake cos it's loose coupled while watching out for the Wood Green Up Box No.2 home signal which mite be off(?) but I bet the Wood Green Up Box No.4 distant signal isn't that thing will be ON it always was.

Mickey wrote: ↑Mon Dec 20, 2021 8:49 pm" .... but I bet the Wood Green Up Box No.4 distant signal isn't, that thing will be ON it always was."

.... Not absolutely always Mickey.
I recall one afternoon when I was, erm... 'in' the box, ( a Sat. ? ), when HS4000 Kestrel came through, hauling a train of (I think) Carflats.