The LNER Encyclopedia

Do you prefer upper quadrant semaphore signals or lower quadrant semaphore signals?.

I was 'brought up' on upper quadrant signals on the ECML but whenever I have come across in particular B.R.(WR) lower quadrant signals I have always had a sneaking liking for them possibly because I never came across them to often?. Subtle differences existed with upper quadrant semaphore signals in particular depending on what former B.R. region you was on for example if you was on a former LNER or LMS line?. For example on the London Midland region it was fairly common for some of those semaphore signal arms either red stop signals or yellow distant signals for the colour of the paint on the arm to include the area where the spectacle glass was housed and also painted red or yellow depending on the signal and wouldn't stop at where the signal spectacle glass started which was usually painted black on former LNER lines also on former LMS lines where the green spectacle glass is housed the metal was sometimes 'straight' parallel with the signal arm as opposed to the more normal 'slight bulge' underneath and around the right side of the green spectacle glass. On the southern region some semaphore signals were sometimes painted grey around the red & green spectacle glass area.

Also a bit of a 'odd' thing regarding semaphore signals in general and particularly with upper quadrant signal arms was 'the bounce' which nobody ever mentions. The bounce usually occurred with a well used semaphore stop signal (rarely if ever with a lone semaphore distant signal due to them being a lot further away distance wise from the s/box) and happened when the signal lever/arm was returned to the on position causing the signal arm to sometimes develop a 'bounce' with the signal arm falling then bouncing back to the off again and then falling again and maybe bouncing back to the 'half off' position for a third time before finally settling at in the on position. Well used lower quadrant signals use to develop a bounce as well with the arm going back up to the on position before falling again and then returning finally to the on position. Semaphore distant signals that were 'slotted' underneath semaphore stop signals would more or less bounce up and down with the stop signal arm above being both connected through the slotted weight bars on the same signal post.

A upper quadrant stop signal- https://www.wizardmodels.ltd/wp-content ... _ke1_2.jpg

A lower quadrant stop signal- https://s0.geograph.org.uk/geophotos/01 ... acf77b.jpg

Mickey wrote: ↑Mon Oct 11, 2021 1:24 pm ...Also a bit of a 'odd' thing regarding semaphore signals in general and particularly with upper quadrant signal arms was 'the bounce' which nobody ever mentions...

Commonly discussed for steam era modeling, as so very characteristic of the signal action (along with the 'singing' of the signal wire as the signal was operated). Just google 'semaphore signal bounce' to see how 'nobody' ever mentions it.

An example of one such: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4aEn63_uq7A

Hatfield Shed wrote: ↑Mon Oct 11, 2021 1:31 pm Commonly discussed for steam era modeling, as so very characteristic of the signal action (along with the 'singing' of the signal wire as the signal was operated). Just google 'semaphore signal bounce' to see how 'nobody' ever mentions it.

Yeah that was something that I actually missed when colour light signalling was gradually introduced at different locations throughout the railways during the 1970s was the sound of 'singing' as you put it Hatfield Shed of the signal wires or as I use to refer to it as a 'swishing' sound. That occurred when the signalman usually 'pulled off' a semaphore signal with the signal wire being 'pulled through the signal pulleys' at the lineside and to a slightly lesser extent when a signal lever/arm was returned to the 'on' position. At s/boxes that (still) had quite a few semaphore signals the sound of the 'singing' of the signal wires could amount to quite a few signal wires being pulled off and or put back in quick succession at onetime and could become quite intriguing to witness with signal wires suddenly becoming taut when being pulled or suddenly slackening off when the signal lever/arm was returned to the 'on' position as well as to hear the swishing noise!.

What is not readily apparent to the railway enthusiast observing semaphore signalling from a station platform or lineside location is the signal wires occasionally require adjusting in either warm or more usually hot weather and conversely in cold or very cold weather by way of an 'adjuster apparatus' often mounted individually for certain signal levers/signals at 'the back of the lever frame' that was operated by the signalman usually by a way of a metal T-bar that slotted into the adjustor apparatus and was either turned in a circular motion to the right to 'tighten up' the signal wire or to the left to 'let out' the signal wire. When I was at Welwyn Garden City box that box maybe had a couple of metal T-bars in the box for the 85 lever frame plus the 20 lever 'Luton frame' although that frame was basically redundant when I was at the box as a telegraph lad in the early 1970s apart from two brown coloured levers that worked the barrier crossing outside the box but all mechanical signal boxes had a T-bar for use to adjust signal wires.

I never really knew why some semaphore signals at signal boxes could be adjusted by the signalman and most others couldn't be adjusted?. I thought maybe 'starting signals' had 'adjusters' but that wasn't always the case. A signal that didn't have an adjuster apparatus the only other way of adjusting that signal wire was to send for the S&T linesman who after arriving at the s/box would have to go underneath the box to adjust the signal wire manually. Strangely most if not all signals that didn't have an adjuster apparatus at the back of the lever frame for that lever didn't usually require adjusting in hot or cold weather?.

I recently saw a picture of a steam hauled loco on a preserved line about to pass a semaphore stop signal that appeared to be standing at roughly a 70 degrees off angle?. I believe a 45 degrees off angle was the 'normal' angle for a semaphore signal to be at the off angle although some semaphore signals on the GN back in the late 1960s & early 1970s were always looking like they could have done with a few turns on the signal adjuster to me?. Harringay (passenger) Up fast line starting signal on that tall gantry always looked like it was 'hanging wrong' to me possibly standing at a 30 degrees off angle?. Also Wood Green Up Box No.2 Up slow line home signal on that wooden T bracket signal post also always looked like it could have done with a few turns on the signal adjuster to me possibly standing at about a 30 degrees off angle when the signal was pulled off?.

Mickey wrote: ↑Mon Oct 11, 2021 3:42 pm What is not readily apparent to the railway enthusiast observing semaphore signalling from a station platform or lineside location is the signal wires occasionally require adjusting in either warm or more usually hot weather and conversely in cold or very cold weather by way of an 'adjuster apparatus' ...

For any in the North London and adjacent 'burbs area, the preserved Midland box at St Albans which is regularly opened for visiting, has all this and much more well described, supported by an enthusiastic volunteer team. And you get a signalman's view of the Midland Line, and can imagine what it might have been like as light levels fell in winter, and smoke and vapour from the locomotives fugged up the scene. (In the days when the CMRA show happened in Snorbens, this made a grand way to round off the day.) Don't take my word for it:
https://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/Attractio ... gland.html

Hatfield Shed wrote: ↑Mon Oct 11, 2021 4:50 pm

Mickey wrote: ↑Mon Oct 11, 2021 3:42 pm What is not readily apparent to the railway enthusiast observing semaphore signalling from a station platform or lineside location is the signal wires occasionally require adjusting in either warm or more usually hot weather and conversely in cold or very cold weather by way of an 'adjuster apparatus' ...

For any in the North London and adjacent 'burbs area, the preserved Midland box at St Albans which is regularly opened for visiting, has all this and much more well described, supported by an enthusiastic volunteer team. And you get a signalman's view of the Midland Line, and can imagine what it might have been like as light levels fell in winter, and smoke and vapour from the locomotives fugged up the scene. (In the days when the CMRA show happened in Snorbens, this made a grand way to round off the day.) Don't take my word for it:
https://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/Attractio ... gland.html

I visited St Albans South box back when it was a working box back in B.R. days in 1970 long before it became a 'tourist attraction' on three separate occasions that year (1970) twice in October and once in November plus St Albans North box was still in use at that time but only just closing for good in December of that year just before Christmas. Brian was the name of one the signalman at the box in 1970 and I reckon he was in his mid/late 30s at that time so if he's still alive he'd be well up in 80s by now.