The LNER Encyclopedia

does anyone else tend to use American terminology when referring to US/Canadian prototypes?

I confess that when I'm talking to my friends living stateside (I'm part of a skype chat that's predominantly people born in the US, with two or three of us from the Britain) I often use their terms when in discussion about US railroads. though when I slip up in regular conversation (IE referring to the funnel on a UK loco as a "Smokestack") it leads to much good natured fun-poking at my expense (insert jokes pertaining to becoming "one of us" or "going native" here)

This topic could run and run Nova because there are loads of British railways 'slang words & names' that go back very many years on Britain's railways that were in common use on Britain's railways at one time that had originated several decades before 1900 on the railways and lasted in regular use by railwaymen throughout the country well in to the 1970s & 1980s although now days many of these slang words & names that were once familiar and common to generations of past railwaymen have now fallen in to disuse these days due to in part to changes in modern working methods and practices along with the use of modern technology. Many of these old railway slang words & names that were once used from different railway company to different railway company or from different region to different region under BR all basically meant the same thing an example is given below.

The usual example given is for a shunting signal be it either a 'disc signal' signal or a 'miniature signal arm' or a 'position light' signal.

On the GNR/LNER it was usually referred to and known as a 'dolly' but on the other lines or regions they referred to as a 'Dodd' 'Dummy' or 'dwarf' signals but any of the previously mentioned slang names all referred to the same thing a shunting signal.

Mickey

Mickey wrote:On the GNR/LNER it was usually referred to and known as a 'dolly' but on the LNWR/LMS it was usually referred to and known as a 'dod' also ground signals were some times called 'dummies' or 'dwarf' signals in other areas around the country but any of the previously mentioned slang names all referred to the same thing a shunting signal.

I have only heard the term "dodd" on the Great Eastern but you might be interested to know the origins. In Voctorian times a gentleman called "Tommy Dodd" was apparently a round-faced performer of extremely short stature. Some drivers used to refer to the signals in full as "tommy dodds".

John

thesignalman wrote:I have only heard the term "dodd" on the Great Eastern but you might be interested to know the origins. In Voctorian times a gentleman called "Tommy Dodd" was apparently a round-faced performer of extremely short stature. Some drivers used to refer to the signals in full as "tommy dodds".

I dare say your correct John and I have amended my original post accordingly. I know when I was on the North London line during the entire 1980s (former LMS lines) the word 'Dodd' was used occasionally although thinking about it again Stratford locomen (former GE/LNER territory) called shunting signals 'Dodd' as well a few miles to the east in East London.

With regards to the word 'Dolly' I've never heard it used outside the GN/LNER since I was at Welwyn Garden City box as a telegraph lad back in the early 1970s. The word/term 'Dolly' was never used on the North London lines ever!.

Mickey

Another slang word/term that I like although I don't know where it originated from or when but it speaks for it's self is the term-

BANG ROAD

Still currently in use occasionally by todays signaller's when making a 'wrong direction' movement along a road that the direction of travel is usually in the opposite direction to that of the wrong direction movement taking place.

Mickey

The only person I know who used 'funnel' as a railway term was Rev. Awdry.

A funnel is something you find on a ship, or at least used to?

Chimney is used here surely, never heard the word 'double-funnel'.

John

JASd17 wrote:The only person I know who used 'funnel' as a railway term was Rev. Awdry.

A funnel is something you find on a ship, or at least used to?

Chimney is used here surely, never heard the word 'double-funnel'.

John

where's a facepalm emote when you need one

UK and US railway terminology and operating practice are a very good example of George Bernard Shaw's "Two countries separated by a common language". The UK shunting hand signal for "move away from me" translates into "move towards me" in the States

thesignalman wrote: ↑Tue Feb 28, 2017 5:18 am

Mickey wrote:On the GNR/LNER it was usually referred to and known as a 'dolly' but on the LNWR/LMS it was usually referred to and known as a 'dod' also ground signals were some times called 'dummies' or 'dwarf' signals in other areas around the country but any of the previously mentioned slang names all referred to the same thing a shunting signal.

I have only heard the term "dodd" on the Great Eastern but you might be interested to know the origins. In Voctorian times a gentleman called "Tommy Dodd" was apparently a round-faced performer of extremely short stature. Some drivers used to refer to the signals in full as "tommy dodds".

John

As regards the terms for independent 'ground' shunt signals (discs or their mechanical and electrically-operated equivalents), I thought that, more familiar than 'Dodd' on BR Midland Region lines, the term 'Dwarf signal' was the more familiar [ was this more an ex-MR lines specialty?], which I certainly heard fifty-odd years ago in the London area, and which of course, accorded with their perpetuated representation on so many box diagrams as tiny semaphore arms long after the vast majority had actually become disc (or position-light?) signals.
In fact I don't think I'd heard 'Dodd' until venturing into ex-GER territory of BR Eastern Region.

Also of possible interest, forty-ish years ago, in the Kings Cross box area at least, an alternative term for all position-light signals crept in, which was 'Sub' [ as in 'Subsidiary': though, as I think has been debated before in these forums, this ought to have strictly only been applied to P-L signals 'below' main 'running'-type multi-aspect signals; not those which were independent ('ground') signals in their own right, and which are now oft-quoted as GPL or GPLS) ].

In my multi-region experience, the most common 'old' name for ground shunting signals was 'Dummy', certainly on the Western Region, and, although difficult to now recall, also I think was sometimes heard on Midland Region territory? Comments ?

This also reminds me of an experience 'in my youft', on the Western, when already a mid-1960s, er... , 'Assistant signalman'.
While 'visiting' Colthrop Siding Box, for some reason it became advisable to leave the box for a while (perhaps, station manager doing the rounds on 'the pay run' or similar).
And so as 'the Newbury Trip' was working in the Down sidings after we'd just run-round it as it would return to Newbury when ready, I cycled the 300-odd yards along the adjacent Reed Board Mills Co.'s road to beside the exit from the sidings to the Down Main to watch the shunting.
When it was completed some ten minutes later, No.11 exit points moved to Reverse, and the right-hand sited, still extant typical ex-GWR oddly-shaped 'disc' 10 came 'Off'.
Shortly after, a rather young 19-ish footplateman, probably the Fireman, leaned out of the open, left-hand cab-side window of the close-by North British D63xx (later allocated TOPS Class 22) loco (standing only about 6 feet back from the signal), and shouted at this 15-year old lad (probably in shorts) leaning on the top wire of the 3 or 4-strand wire fence protecting the main siding, and shouted "Ey kid! Is that dummy Off?", who reacted by instinctively looking down, straight at the signal, then back again and replied 'Yes!', upon which he withdrew from the window and the train immediately moved off, to the DM, and disappeared safely towards Thatcham.
On collecting my thoughts at this point, I reflected ''Hang on! How did he know that I would understand what he was asking?', AND trust the reply as making it okay to move a train off? -
- Either reckless, or he had spotted me in the box earlier and made an assumption : Even so ....
Either way, it is a clear, fond memory of a time of acquiring much practical railway knowledge.

The chat on ground signals also reminds me of the old trio (possibly more?) terms for running line main signals; 'peg', 'stick. or 'board' ....

If they haven't already got / have access to a copy, anyone really interested in differences in UK, US, etc. railway terminology might enjoy delving into -
Ellis' British Railway Engineering Encyclopaedia (currently, 3rd Edition, 2014), by Iain Ellis (published via lulu.com),
- though the usual price, new, of the 576-page, 10,000+ far-from-only-engineering definitions paperback (which includes all but one of the terms mentioned in this thread), is around £25 !

Until about the 1970s and maybe the 1980s on British Rail when the railways in Britain still had 'guards' on there trains as opposed to 'conductors' that they have these days one railway term I remember hearing that was applied to the guards 'black leather bag' was the word 'traps' which all passenger & goods guards back then carried around with them and contained all the guards railway equipment such as Detonators, Working Time Tables, Special Train Operating publications a bardic hand lamp plus a set of small hand held red & green flags as well as other personal items such as a tea can along with tea, sugar & milk (usually in a old sauce bottle) and there cheese sarnies which was all carried in there black leather guards bag which was usually carried slung over the shoulder by the guard!.

When I was a young 15 & 16 years old telegraph lad at Welwyn Garden City box on the GN main line back in the early 1970s I remember one day a goods guard coming into the box and chatting with the signalman (Cecil White) and a word that came up during there conversation between the both of them was the word 'traps'?. Anyway after the goods guard had left the box Cecil turned to me and said did I know what the word 'traps' meant in a railway context?. I said no I didn't and Cecil told me that the word 'traps' is the name that the guards called there 'guards bag' that guards carried around with them which contained all there railway equipment and personal items. So there you have it a railway term that has probably died out from modern day railway usage these days by the current generation of male & female conductors who work for the various TOCs.

Mickey

Ay up!

I always knew ground signals as either Dolly or Sub.