The LNER Encyclopedia

Ihave a photo of 82019 on the ash road at Nine Elms 70A in the mid 60,a with the fireman walking around the loco BUT
on closer inspection the figure is a WOMAN, now friends in rge 8D Association say they drd,nt have women, but here she is, any comment
Richie

Just a suggestion but if it's on shed, might she have been one of the engine cleaners?

Hi, more information, am reliably informed from an ex Nine Elms source that British Railways did employ women as cleaners in late steam days and at Nine Elms, where the photo was taken, learnt footplate work to cover any shortages and during that work experience did ECS duties at Waterloo station. So there we have it, straight from the horses mouth

widnesian wrote:Hi, more information, am reliably informed from an ex Nine Elms source that British Railways did employ women as cleaners in late steam days and at Nine Elms, where the photo was taken, learnt footplate work to cover any shortages and during that work experience did ECS duties at Waterloo station. So there we have it, straight from the horses mouth

I wonder if ASLEF knew about women being employed as 'occasional firemen' on some firing turns at Nine Elms i wouldn't have thought Ray Buckton & ASLEF would have agreed to that??.

I remember a railway friend of mine telling me back in 1968 that he nearly went to Nine Elms shed a couple of years earlier to sign on as a cleaner/fireman cos they were 'crying out for firemen' and he fancied firing a Battle of Britain!!.

"crying out for firemen", I wonder if that,s the reason they used women, because the could,nt get the manpower

widnesian wrote:"crying out for firemen", I wonder if that,s the reason they used women, because the could,nt get the manpower

Yes no doubt it was done 'on the quiet' occasionally when there were no other firemen or even driver's or shed cleaner's available to do a bit of firing left on the shed.

Is this not one of the causes for the introduction of Diesel shunters etc in certain areas.
Lack of manpower brought the Diesel era in that much quicker.?

G'day Gents

Not all footplate staff belonged to ASLEF, many were NUR members, so wouldn't be affected by ASLEF rules.

The 'Southern' has always be short of staff, most of there London Drivers, came from North of the River.

manna

Yes your correct manna there was always a number (probably a small number?) of NUR member's on the footplate at various sheds & depots around the country although it's safe to say that most footplate men would have been ASLEF member's i would say.

If i remember correctly the first female 'secondman' to be employed by British Rail was a young woman at Cricklewood on the London Midland Region back in 1977.

With regards to women secondmen on B.R. a Stratford driver on the G.E.told me back in 1979 that the objection to female footplate crew didn't come from the footplate men but apparently from there wives!!.

I was at Didcot some years ago when a two 66's came in, the two lady drivers swapped over and went on their way.

When steam came back on the Mallaig line in 1984, there was a lady who went to Fort William on promotion to driver and offered her services as a fireman, I never did find out if she actually did the job.

NG.

More info from the Nine Elms Driver, the women were NUR and he cannot remember any union objection, and as long as the woman could do the job, the drivers were ok with them, the complaints about using women on the footplate came from the wives