Oil trains?

[WTTReprinter]

Hi Mickey
There are some cracking 1950's views around Hertford East and Printars in the film 'School for Scoundrels.'

The terminus crops up in a 1950s b&w film in the disguise as YEOVIL station on the southern?.

That's the one. School for Scoundrels' opening moments show a train arriving at a station purporting to be Yeovil but it's actually Hertford E. You then see him walking around the carriage sidings before heading out onto Mead Lane where the siding to Printar crosses. It must've been filmed in the late '50 as the OHL mast were starting to go up.

[Mickey]

Hi Mickey
There are some cracking 1950's views around Hertford East and Printars in the film 'School for Scoundrels.'

The terminus crops up in a 1950s b&w film in the disguise as YEOVIL station on the southern?.

That's the one. School for Scoundrels' opening moments show a train arriving at a station purporting to be Yeovil but it's actually Hertford E. You then see him walking around the carriage sidings before heading out onto Mead Lane where the siding to Printar crosses. It must've been filmed in the late '50 as the OHL mast were starting to go up.

I have heard of the film School for Scoundrels in the past a number of times and I mite have even watched it(?) but a short piece of film of a ex-GER tank loco and it's passenger train is seen arriving at a terminal station which crops up on a late John Huntley dvd from Video 125 productions from 1989 which amongst other film outtakes features Hertford East terminus purporting to be YEOVIL station. John who is the video narrator originally asked the question on the first dvd of two that although the station has a YEOVIL name board the station 'seems to be a bit out of character' for YOEVIL and in fact suggests a terminal station either by the sea or on a country branch line and it also appears to have GER features?. The tank loco he goes on to say was in fact a ex-GER Holden tank which at the time of the film being made 1959/60 was allocated to Stratford shed in east London. Someone who was watching the first dvd with this piece of film included wrote into Video 125 and said it was actually HERTFORD EAST station which was mentioned at the end on the second dvd.

[Mickey]

Hi all it may or may not be common knowledge that plans were mooted,to replace KX with St.Pancras way back in the early'60's,utilising I assume the under existing platform areas @ St.Pancras no cool room for the Burton Beers!,commuters requiring Moorgate would travel on the existing Widened Lines or via Drayton Park, not finalised @ the time,the uproar that came from all railway grades along with all staff affected or otherwise, motormen/loaders/contractors & Unions can be imagined with Middle&Upper management all unanimous on the said subject for once, a resounding NO!,was this the beginning of Clarence Yard (FP) with this in mind?,food for thought.jj

Never heard of that one beforejj?. I know they wanted to close St Pancras during the later 1960s and I presume use a wrecking ball on the place pounding it into a pile of brick rubble!. Also I heard during the late 1970s or early 1980s they wanted to sever the Midland main line just north of Bedford.

At first I couldn't see the connection between Burton Beers and Oil Trains jj but I suppose you could get 'well oiled' with both.

[rockinjohn]

Hi, Mickey never know how to list a new subject hence subject title,remember the "Crabs" bringing in the beer trains from Burton from a past post hence comment,I think there must have been an underground connection to store the beer, from the next door Somers Town Goods depot which was a v. large complex & busy in its day, most freight worked by locos ex.Cricklewood (14A) after turnround or own shed roster,reference for the subject came from "Railways in the Blood"by R.N.Hardy,dont think anyone would have agreed on the Demolition of St.Pancras due to its Architectrural Merit,although for me the facade of the "Cross" after demolition of the "village"eyesore outfront showed us its true futuristic (1852?!)splendlor & this also could have been a sad loss.

[Mickey]

The old St Pancras station of the London Midland region of B.R. jj was alright during the 1970s and I always thought the station had a 'coffee smell' aroma around the place plus it was a change of diesel locos from next door at the cross in the shape of a few class 45 'Peaks' on loco hauled express workings to and from either Derby or Nottingham that were always to be seen along with the odd class 25 Birmingham Sulzer as well as the x4 car Derby Rolls Royce DMUs on either the Luton all stoppers of the or Bedford semi-fasts and it made a bit of a change from the cross next door of Deltics and Brush type 2s & 4s.

My late departed mum use to work for several years at St Pancras station back in the 1970s in The Shires bar pulling pints if anyone remembers it where you could buy a cheese & pickle sandwich or roll and a pint of Double-Diamond keg bitter for the princely sum of £1.50p back in 1974-76. Prior to her working in The Shires bar she worked in The Ridings bar on Kings Cross old no.10 platform around 1971-74.

[rockinjohn]

Hi Cheap by todays standards, but it was the '60's and inflation ran away in the late 60's-thru to late '70's&beyond,I liked a Dbl/Diamond, but my brew was a "Long Life"that I enjoyed, mind you in Glasgow while sampling the Railways/Beer, I hung out for a Mc ewans to be disappointed ,ended up drinking Fosters which is our Crown lager, a boutique beer here & priced accordingly, lucky poms&scots!now I liked St.Pancras, those Brush Type4's allocated to Darnell(41A) @ the "X"that I hadn't seen that amounted to" one" turned up @ the Camley St?refuelling point that I spied outside the terminus,&the H/code25's that arrived caked in iron ore coatings from Wellingborough/Kettering area(after class 45 failures?)intrigued me,not gonna talk about steam days the "Waverley"or "Thames Clyde"( Dbl/headed Blk5's with big numbers ex. St Rollox works working in from the Carlisle Area Sheds)& that Bradford arr/dep that always surprised, Hope your mum could give you "staff discount"but maybe you were a bit to young to partake.....ps I was in an off licence in Hornsey Rd, Holloway when the Worthington bottle of"white shield"(why was export labelled always better/stronger? didnt they think we could handle it?) on the top shelf, exploded x2 with no acknowledgement from the barman, maybe a regular happening for him?jj ps favourite station Marylebone, sitting on a parcels trolley doing nothing / peaceful nothing happening(you had to go to Neasden(MPD) especially on Cup Final day) having walked from KX/St.Pancras& Euston just had to recharge the batteries before the adventure of Paddington& its possible Manor or Southall(81B)loco_ ....jj

[Mickey]

Hi Cheap by todays standards, but it was the '60's and inflation ran away in the late 60's-thru to late '70's&beyond,I liked a Dbl/Diamond, but my brew was a "Long Life"that I enjoyed, mind you in Glasgow while sampling the Railways/Beer, Hope your mum could give you "staff discount"but maybe you were a bit to young to partake.....

Another Double-Diamond drinker jj. As a teenager during most of the 1970s Double-Diamond was a favourite beer of mine along with Watney's red barrel "Because for the southerner it was the guvnor" as the tv advertising went during the mid 1970s. I once wrote that on a retro-beer website and was panned!. Apparently these days if you don't like 'real ale' or 'craft beers' then you stand no chance saying that you liked Double-Diamond from the 1970s which according to 'real nuts' is regarded as 'chemical rubbish' of the first order. Double-Diamond did the job as a first quencher as opposed to the real ale beers which I personally find are to strong to enjoy. With regards to Fosters 'amber nectar' as the Australian's use to call it that stuff started to become popular with British drinkers during the second half of the 1970s when beer drinking went into decline.

With regards to a discount on beer and cheese rolls because my mum worked in The Ridings bar at Kings Cross station and The Shires bar at St Pancras station during the 1970s I believe you maybe right jj I have a vague memory of my old mum saying something to me about that although at the time I didn't really drink except when I went into the loco at Kings Cross and hung out in the Kings Cross BRSA club with other railwaymen which says something about being in the loco back then. These days I don't drink alcohol hardly if ever except for maybe during Christmas dinner.

Told ya about that Leeds to Willesden Freightliner arriving at Western Junction (Dalston) on the North London line to run/round back in 1974 and the guard finding one of the pressurised metal beer kegs at the rear of the train was spurting out keg beer much to the delight of the train crew (which included myself) which after emptying out the tea cans refilled them with BEER!.

[rockinjohn]

Hi Mickey &all,that refuelling/stabling point just outside St Pancras was CAMBRIDGE St not Camley,also you mentioned the DMU's which were dedicated @ the time to the Midland London surburban lines,Derby Built with RR engines, think Class 127?, running quite fast runners in the Outer London Areas,Now their was quite a delay (staff refusal)? in introducing the Electrics on the line which the National Press,as always anti BR in that era &before, unkindly named 'BED-PAN",& a complaint was made to the local council Brent? by local residents living near the DMU servicing area @ Cricklewood, their were two(2) traction depots there on Up &Down sides both with major staff shortages about the units engines never being shut down when stabling & left idling continuosly o/nite, which was not the case when first introduced,BR answered "if turned off they would never start again"!but the board had their moneys worth from the "units" on a very intensive fast running service out to Bedford over their dedicated deployment,Just discovered the Accident with the Twin Brush Type2's @ Staples Corner, can anyone shed more light on this please?jj

[StevieG]

" .... Now their was quite a delay (staff refusal)? in introducing the Electrics on the line which the National Press,as always anti BR in that era &before, unkindly named 'BED-PAN",& a complaint was made to the local council Brent? .... "

Think it was mainly that the 317 EMUs for that route were equipped for DOO (Driver Only Operation) working, thus permitting dispensing with having a guard on every train jj. One of (possibly 'The') main provision was the then new driving cab / signalman radio system (generally then termed DOO Radio; More recently CSR [Cab Secure Radio] ).
I believe the delay on the 'Bed - Pan' was long enough that the 313s we had on the GN lines (Welwyn GC / Hertford N. - Moorgate / KX) were first to go operationally 'live' with DOO Radio communicating with KX Power Box.

" .... Just discovered the Accident with the Twin Brush Type2's @ Staples Corner, can anyone shed more light on this please?jj"

This link may work for you jj : Might not tell you anything additional, but you may find it interesting anyway. : -

- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQfPbjs87HM

[rockinjohn]

Hi Stevie G, thanks for that,I wasnt sure why the "Bed-Pans" were blacked, but I know quite a few months passed,with the #127's just holding up,now the U Tube footage was great,pretty sure where the woman approaches the "ribbon" is/ was a single track, possibly bi-directional, that I often saw a Blk5 tender first & usually a Saltley(21A) loco,passing under the arch carrying the main lines,the line connecting the up side to the down side lines,& were those Brush 2's visitors or Cricklewood(14A)based I wonder?jj

[thesignalman]

Just discovered the Accident with the Twin Brush Type2's @ Staples Corner, can anyone shed more light on this please?jj

Official story: Hooligans released the handbrakes
True story: Guess . . .

John

[Mickey]

Reference made above to 'the Midland' reminds me of a true story that actually made it into the national press that I actually read about at the time that it happened all be it in only a couple of inches in a piece inside one of the national daily newspapers about a signalman working at Carlton Road Junction s/box just north of Kentish Town on the Midland main line one day back in 1977/78 who had a intruder enter the box with this intruder pulling a handgun on the signalman who then proceeded to march the signalman at gun point out of the box and along the line to Kentish Town station where the story ends.

The signalman involved in this strange episode unbeknown to me actually worked at my box for a number of years before he happen to mention it one day that it was him involved in the incident with the intruder at Carlton Road s/box anyway I won't name him but he retired from the railway exactly 20 years ago but I had noticed that he would keep the box door locked during the day and not just during night.

As for a actual oil train story related to the above area was that the one and only freight train that use to travel along the Up Tottenham line from Carlton Road Juntion towards Junction Road Junction that at the time in late 1981 which was by that time was signalled from Engine Shed Junction s/box to Junction Road s/box that oil train I recall use to run through Junction Road with it's train of large oil tanks sometime after 11:00pm on a Friday night anyway I would try and give that train the 'back board' (the distant signal) a lone semaphore signal down at Mortimer Street that was once mounted underneath Mortimer Street's Up Tottenham starting signal so I'd clear the distant for that one because it was 'up hill' to Junction Road Junction.

[rockinjohn]

Hi Mickey and all, intruders with guns in signalboxes! you wonder to what purpose that visit was made, to steal his "tiffin"tin or tea &sugar?Ghost visits would appear to be a regular sighting,almost always in remote places, famous one is @ a signalbox on the S&C, another near Shap &the famous Box Tunnel story,&of course the "London Underground" any "BR" nearer home to us, that you Mickey or others may know of?Merry Xmas to all &take care Rgds Rockin John (68990)ghosts &the New Year coming funny how we got here.

[Mickey]

Hi Mickey and all, intruders with guns in signalboxes! you wonder to what purpose that visit was made, to steal his "tiffin"tin or tea &sugar?Ghost visits would appear to be a regular sighting,almost always in remote places, famous one is @ a signalbox on the S&C, another near Shap &the famous Box Tunnel story,&of course the "London Underground" any "BR" nearer home to us, that you Mickey or others may know of?Merry Xmas to all &take care Rgds Rockin John (68990)ghosts &the New Year coming funny how we got here.

As previously posted on my NLL Recollections thread (North London line recollections to be found on the non-railway topics pages) I was alone and sitting in Gospel Oak s/box during the early hours of the morning which was a fairly remote location in it's own right although back in those days 1989 I believe a Chargeman use to lock himself in the train crews mess room on the Up platform at night which was some comfort I suppose anyway the box phone startled me when it started ringing at around 2:00am and a voice of a line controller asked me to lock the box door because a member of the public had reported seeing a bloke carrying a gun walking along the railway line towards Gospel Oak station!. Suddenly you feel quite lonely knowing a 'nutcase' carrying a gun is walking along the railway line at 2;00am in early hours heading your way!. I believe I switched the box dimmer lights off completely so the place was in total darkness but that old door I believe 'didn't lock' or the door key was missing or both?. Anyway nothing came of this reported bloke walking along the line carrying a gun so after about 30 minutes I 'stood down' and presumed he must have got off the railway?.

Another 'gun story' which would be better off being posted on the aforementioned NLL Recollections topic thread was a story told to me by the person directly involved in 'the drama' another signalman but that person shall remain nameless although he retired some 30+ years ago now. The drama occured I believe back in the 1970s at Willesden station in north west London although I won't go into any details of what happened except a signalman was disturbed during the early hours of the morning in the old Willesden New line s/box on the DC Euston-Watford lines which was known locally as 'the low level' station as opposed to the high level station up stairs. Anyway an 'intruder' carrying a sawn off shotgun managed to gain entry to the Willesden New Line s/box and proceded to tie the signalman up in the s/box chair while brandishing a swan off shotgun in his hands!. The purpose of what was being played out in the New Line s/box during those early hours wasn't the main event in this drama apparently something else was going else where but the least said about that the better.


Willesden New Line s/box on the DC Euston-Watford line at Willesden Low Level station-

I worked that New Line s/box on and off towards the end of it's life around 1988/89 prior to it closing and Willesden Suburban NX panel box being commissioned in 1990 when I was on the relief around the North London line at that time and it was a funny old job to work that box. A old LNWR s/box which had a primitive panel up the far end of the box which controlled around the Queens Park area where the B.R. lines fringed with the L.T. lines along with the Willesden low level station area and the Stonebridge Park station area and then the box had 'control' if that was the correct word(?) of vast long auto-signalled sections out towards Harrow & Weldstone and beyond towards Headstone Lane or Hatch End stations if Harrow No.2 box on the DC lines was 'switched out' as well that weren't shown on the Willesden New Line panel in the box?. I would guess that 98% of the signalling was done on the panel in that box although the box had a 50 or 60 LNWR 'stirrup lever frame' in the rest of the box which was rarely touched normally during a shift unless a train was entering or exiting the Willesden TMD (Traction Maintenace Depot) or a train was terminating or starting from the solitary bay platform in the low level station or to operate the junction points to & from Kensal Green Junction plus it was a 'cold box' especially on nights which was partly countered by pieces of old floor carpet laid on top of the lever frame to try and stop the cold coming up through the gaps in the slides in between the levers. Also after the B.R. & Bakerloo line service finished around 12:30-12:40am the station fell silent and was totally deserted until about 5:30am which all added to the isolation and loneliness of the place. A 'funny story' that I heard attached to that box was apparently someone I presume a Operations manager did a night visit to the box for some reason and allegedly the signalman came to the box door and opened it wearing stripped pajamas and slippers!. Obviously he didn't expect any noctural visits from anyone?.

[kudu]

Hi, Mickey never know how to list a new subject hence subject title,remember the "Crabs" bringing in the beer trains from Burton from a past post hence comment,I think there must have been an underground connection to store the beer, from the next door Somers Town Goods depot which was a v. large complex & busy in its day, most freight worked by locos ex.Cricklewood (14A) after turnround or own shed roster,reference for the subject came from "Railways in the Blood"by R.N.Hardy,dont think anyone would have agreed on the Demolition of St.Pancras due to its Architectrural Merit,although for me the facade of the "Cross" after demolition of the "village"eyesore outfront showed us its true futuristic (1852?!)splendlor & this also could have been a sad loss.

The "underground connection" was a wagon lift located in the station area, not the goods depot. It was positioned in the station throat, on the end of the signal box facing the station, if I remember correctly. There must be photographs. I never saw it used.

The demolition of St Pancras was a serious proposal that attracted much opposition, of course, not least from John Betjeman, who earned himself a statue in the restored station for his pains.

Mention of the beer vaults beneath the station prompts me to remark on the giants that once inhabited the place. They have left evidence of their presence in the shelves helpfully provided for their beer glasses high up on every one of the many support columns that the renovation has exposed for public view. (I do hate that white colour - surely a reddish hue would have been appropriate to acknowledge the station's origins?) If you don't like my explanation for the "shelves", then you come up with a better one.

Kudu