What makes a locomotive's identity (headaches imminent)

[Andy W]

I asked a colleague about this rumour back in the 1980's. It's been around for years, this one. He worked on the line at Crewe at that time and he said that the job was a special and it definitely was the original article. He said some of the smaller bits that went on it were repaired ex-stock and not what came off (I think he mentioned wheels as one example) and some at Crewe thought it would have been much easier just to swap the frames (which they did regularly at Crewe on several classes) with another withdrawn one but it had to be the original.

I didn't see the article in the RM but the absence of any donor engine at Crewe at that time does indicate we are still looking at 92220 with it's original frames, unlike several Black 5's that are still about!

[60800]

I'd have to say that Sir Nigel's another probable candidate for not being mostly original. Yes, as far as i'm aware she has her original frames, but she's had twleve boiler changes and also to my knowledge, four of her drivers and her valve gear are from Miles Beevor. You also have to remember her rebuilt cab, chimney and firebox her and non original tender.

Another point of note is (Irish 'S' class I believe) Slieve gullion. When the original loco went for a 'major service', it was completely rebuilt, as was the majority of the class and was effectively a brand new loco. To be quite frank, I don't think a new monoblock casting for Green Arrow would hurt anyone , although it wouldn't go unnoticed

[Blink Bonny]

Actually, so far as I'm aware Blackout, Gresley also had replacement frames in the '50s, her originals being too battered for further use.

I think we need to draw a distinction between railway locos and classic cars. Sure, an E-type with its original engine and gearbox, in original, immaculate, unrestored condition is always going to be worth more than a restored example. But the original one won't have got out much and may be dangerous to drive due to perishing seals and degraded tyres. The resto will have had these sorted, plus upgrades making it a safer car.

However, when a loco goes in for repair, only the frames will re-emerge as "that" loco. If they are beyond repair, they will be replaced. Boiler, motion, wheels, axleboxes and often the tender will be whatever walked out of their respective shops first. Usually, the painter uses the number on the cabside as his guide as to what the loco is. However, when restored the preserved Super D was found to have several different identites painted on the cabside.

Surely shouldn't originality with locomotives be about the condition in which they are presented?

[60800]

I agree, it's not about the name or number of a loco, but the fact that all the parts (boiler, frames, tender etc) are of that class of loco and wether it is as it was designed to be (ie: an A4 pacific capable of at least 112mph with 9 coaches on a level plain). So a loco is 'original' if it is what it is meant to be, regardless of which loco the parts came from. Scotsman is therefore mostly orignal as it has A3 frames and an A3 boiler with A3 wheels and motion