Loco Diagram Database/Repository

[manna]

G'Day Gents

IIRC, goods trains to Temple Mills, usually had a "T" prefix, IE 9T69, return workings to KX goods yard were 9B69.

Pity I chucked out a lot of paperwork, when I moved to Oz.

manna

[03piggs]

Hi all,

Just an update for those that were interested in this project.

I have created a Google Drive that could be used to store diagrams/workings.

So far, I have had no responses of anyone who is willing to contribute the official diagrams. (I've asked on several forums/groups) so as far as I can see, this is a non starter unless some come forward.

Anything from 1948 (or earlier. Unlikely due to age) to 1995 locomotive or multiple unit diagrams is what wouold be included in this. If you do wish to help, please DM me.

Stu

[Mickey]

IIRC, goods trains to Temple Mills, usually had a "T" prefix, IE 9T69, return workings to KX goods yard were 9B69.

Did this train go from Kings Cross Goods yard over to Temple Mills as 9T69 I thought it was 9B69 in both directions to and from Temple Mills?. Still it is getting on for nearly 50 years ago when this train ran so maybe my memory is mistaken?.

[manna]

G'Day Mickey

Fairly sure it was a 'T' classification, T as in Temple Mills, I remembered it because it was the only time we used T for anything, always 'B' when we came back.

Back in 1971, there was at least three trains a day (possibly 4) from KX Goods Yard to Temple Mills.

manna

[Mickey]

I believe manna that you and your driver and guard had an intreresting morning when you was a secondman on this 9T69 back in the early 1970s when you was running around the train between Finsbury Park No.3 & Finsbury Park No.2 s/boxes?. I think I have a very vague memory of seeing the aftermath of that derailment from a passing train?.

I liked that job 9T69/9B69 when I was a secondman at Kings Cross (1974-75) as I was rostered on it maybe half a dozen times during the second half of 1974. After signing on you and your driver and maybe guard(?) would 'take a walk up to Kings Cross Goods yard' to work the train (after making the tea of course in the shunters lobby at Five Arch ha ha). It was a nice job and a nice time to sign on at Kings Cross around 8:00am which made a nice change from either signing on in the final hour before midnight or between just after midnight and 5:00am which a lot of the Kings Cross loco diagrams seemed to be back in the early/mid 1970s. Signing on before midnight was classed as a 'night turn' and signing on after midnight was classed as a 'early turn' so quite often one week you could be signing on at 11:55pm which was a classed as a 'night turn' and then the following week you could be signing on at 12:05am which was classed as a 'early turn' which to me was two weeks of nights?.

[manna]

Hi Mickey

Yes, that was a very interesting morning, bouncing over the sleepers, while we sat comfortably on a pile of sleepers watch the re-railing crew, another crew, hooked on the other end of 9T69 and dragged the train to Harringay flyover, to get the train to Temple Mills.

There was many 'Funny' diagrams at the Cross in the early 70's, but at least we got paid for them.

manna

[Mickey]

Back in 1974 I remember two or three diagrams at Kings Cross that were probably in no.5 drivers and secondmen's link of relieving 'northern train crews' off freightliners at Finsbury Park station between 5:00-6:00am during weekday mornings that had come up road during the early hours from Leeds FLT (Freight Liner Terminal). The locos were usually always class 47s and after relieving the northern train crews the freightliner would head for Stratford FLT in East London via Finsbury Park No.1 s/box, Canonbury Junction (the junction with the North London line) and then passing through Western Junction (Dalston) Homerton, Victoria Park, Lea Junction & Stratford FLT.

I don't remember the first part of the above diagrams it may have just been 'spare on shed' for the first three or four hours(?) but I remember being at Finsbury Park station between 5:00-6:00am a few times with my driver and we would visit a cafe that was just across the road from the station entrance to buy some takeaway cheese sandwiches and tea and then go back on the Up slow line platform and wait for our freightliner train.

[manna]

Hi Mickey

I spend many hours sitting that overheated mess room on Platform one, it really was for to small for up to 20 loco crew waiting for there Freightliners, most of them went, as you said, to Stratford, but I enjoyed the Willesden ones as we didn't get over them very often.

manna

[Mickey]

Yeah you are right manna it was a bit rare to go over to Willedsen FLT being at Kings Cross loco but I remember on at least one occasion as a secondman while working a freightliner train from Finsbury Park across to Willesden FLT (beside the Euston main line) we run/round our train between Eastern & Western Junction s/boxes at Dalston and it would have been in 1974 anyway I particturly remember this trip because after running round at Dalston we set off across the North London line via Camden Road and Primrose Hill then we had a short run along the Down slow line as far as Willesden where we were crossed over into the Freightliner terminal but before we arrived at Willesden FLT we were stopped at a red colour light signal on the Down slow line possibly around the Kensal Green area on the approach to Willesden and my driver said to me "Let the signalman know we are standing here but becareful when you are talking to him and mind out for trains on the Up fast line" because the SPT (Signal Post Telephone) was virtually at ground level situated between the Down slow and the Up fast line with only a couple of feet spare on either side of you!. Of course as luck would have it after climbing down from the cab of our class 47 a class 86/87(?) came rushing along the Up fast line hauling an express only feet away from me when I was standing in the 6ft talking on the SPT with the signalman.

Being a Kings Cross loco crew it was a bit strange travelling along the Euston main line towards Willesden and being in former LMS and B.R.(LMR) territory?.

[Mickey]

Two Kings Cross loco diagrams possibly in no.5 link that would probably get overlooked were no.1-shunt & no.2-shunt around the station.

no.1-shunt during 1974-75 and probably from 1970 was always a blue livered class 31 displaying the head code 0S01 before the head code boxes fell out of use from about 1976 onwards and displaying instead two white dots.
no.2-shunt during 1974-75 was usually a blue livered class 08 diesel shunter which I believe was only seen either late at night or during the early hours of the morning around the station.

The no.1-shunt class 31 loco between jobs was sometimes seen sitting around the back of the Milk dock or could also be seen sitting on the 'north spur' very close to the entrance/exit to the middle bore of Gasworks tunnel at 'the throat' between jobs.
The no.2-shunt class 08 diesel shunter may have been seen late at night or during the early hours of the morning sitting in the west side suburban platforms in either platform no.14 or no.15 (from 1972 onwards platforms no.12 & no.13) between jobs.

Trying to get comfortable on class 31 loco either sitting in the driver's seat or the second man's seat while the loco was sitting around the back of the Milk dock at 2:00 am for an hour or two between jobs could get a bit hard going after an hour but nothing like sitting in the cab of a class 08 diesel shunter perched on a swivel seat!.

[Mickey]

Considering the Marylebone mainline was at one time under LNER ownership maybe it is worth a mention of an interesting little job on the Marylebone line back in the early 1970s and quite possibly the late 1960s which by that time the Marylebone line was under the London Midland Region and saw mainly Rolls Royce DMUs on all passenger workings on the line. The train concerned was the 'Aylesbury newspapers' although I know hardly anything about this working other than I saw it advertised in a WTT from that period and a vague memory that it departed Marylebone sometime around 4:10 am and was hauled by a class 25 diesel loco and possibly consisted of a few B.R.Mk1 BGs but other than that I don't know where it stopped on route to Aylesbury other than assuming that it possibly stopped at Amersham, Great Missenden, maybe Wendover and Stoke Manderville(?) and finally Aylesbury Town. I don't know where the class 25 loco originated from to work this train nor do I know it's back working up to London except I am assuming it may have been stabled at Aylesbury Town during the daytime and then worked up to Marylebone as ECS either during the late evening or during the early hours of the following morning?

[rockinjohn]

Hi Mickey that class 25 Newspaper working would have been a (14A)loco &turn, by this time they looked after any "loco" hauled workings EX GC. lines,also that "stump"of a siding held the first loco I always saw after arriving @KX down the cobbles to the York Way Platform with my bike,what could be viewed standing by in steam &early diesel days,if a steam tank engine could be J52/J50/N1/N2/L1 or 08/Sulzer2/BTH2/NB61XX & of course the 31's.Always thought it would have made a nice "03"turn like other N.E.Main Stations.jj

[Mickey]

Hi Mickey that class 25 Newspaper working would have been a (14A)loco &turn, by this time they looked after any "loco" hauled workings EX GC. lines,also that "stump"of a siding held the first loco I always saw after arriving @KX down the cobbles to the York Way Platform with my bike,what could be viewed standing by in steam &early diesel days,if a steam tank engine could be J52/J50/N1/N2/L1 or 08/Sulzer2/BTH2/NB61XX & of course the 31's.Always thought it would have made a nice "03"turn like other N.E.Main Stations.jj

What shed was 14A?. I presume an LMR shed jj?.

With regards to the 'Marylebone to Aylesbury newspapers' from the late 1960s and early 1970s possibly 'John the signalman' may know a little bit about it considering he worked Aylesbury Town South s/box during the 1980s so I assume he may know something about that particular train working because many years ago when I made a reference to that particular train on here he implied he knew of it?.

Meanwhile back at 'the cross'...

With regards to that 'stump' jj as you probably know there was a 'north spur' outside the Gasworks tunnel and a 'south spur' about opposite the 1933 s/box.

[rockinjohn]

Hi Mickey (14A)Cricklewood, it actually had in diesel days two(2)sheds/areas still coded 14 called East &West? but the following letter was amended for both, DOWN(side) shed was the old steam shed &UP(side)I think looked after the DMU's, where as the former looked after the diesel locos for the Midland London Area, Kentish Town(14B) in steam days closed by now.I only ever saw the locos standing by on the Gasworks Tunnel siding,so I will try to find a track plan to see exactly where the other was,now I mentioned The "03" which trigged my memory back in an earlier post I mentioned the short siding alongside the York Way UP Moorgate dive under that usually held a wooden plank wagon for the use of the Carriage Cleaners collected rubbish &their was plenty! from the Up Mainline arrivals.Around '54-'57 can't date exactly from memory,& not mentioned in any Railway Mags I've read of the time,sat an 0-6-0 shunter very like an"03"painted in Dark Green with brass fittings & timber varnished cab doors, only bearing makers plates, no numbers for @least a month being seen on numerous visits then as quickly as it arrived it had gone,wonder if it ever moved around in the station area?jj

[Mickey]

back in an earlier post I mentioned the short siding alongside the York Way UP Moorgate dive under that usually held a wooden plank wagon for the use of the Carriage Cleaners collected rubbish &their was plenty! from the Up Mainline arrivals.

I believe that was the 'south spur' that you may be referring to jj. It's a bit hard to try and recall the 1960s and early 1970s Kings Cross station layout in detail 50 years on from memory alone?.