Electrification?

[sandwhich]

With a small wiring scheme now going on at Barking Riverside, I wonder if anybody at Network Rail has thought about keeping this team together for two more small tying up schemes in London, Acton Wells to Acton Lane then Junction Road to Carlton Road.

[Mickey]

I may well be wrong here but I have a vague memory of possibly hearing at the time around 1973/74 that the AC overhead wires were only going to be provided on the Up & Down slow lines between Woolmer Green and Hitchin station and then after Hitchin station electric trains would then proceed around the Junction curve onto and off the Cambridge branch at Cambridge Junction with the AC overheads only going as far as Royston station before terminating. I presume the idea of that was it wasn't worth 'wiring up' the Up & Down fast lines beyond Woolmer Green through to Hitchin and beyond along the main line because it was still used 100% by diesel traction during the early/mid 1970s. Obviously that idea didn't materialise or was dropped pretty quickly if it was ever a serous idea to begin with?.

[StevieG]

" .... that the AC overhead wires were only going to be provided on the Up & Down slow lines between Woolmer Green and Hitchin station .... "

I'm sure that was the case Mickey, and I think steel erection for only that, was done for a distance to the north of Woolmer, with structures for the Fasts added not long after.
I think if you study things from Woolmer towards Stevenage, you may notice there are more separate cantilever structures than would probably have been the case if the designs were for all four roads to be wired at the same time, which might then have involved more headspan structures.

" .... the AC overheads only going as far as Royston station .... "

I'm sure you recall that was the situation for around 10(?) years, with the wires only extending beyond Royston station about halfway to the trailing and facing crossovers around the corner; until the AC overheads were extended beyond there (and Bishops Stortford) towards Cambridge.

[sandwhich]

Yes the original plans for GN electrification required only the slow lines from Woolmer Green to Hitchin to be wired up, it was soon realised it was a little daft. After the completion of the Royston electrification there was some clearance work done including lowering some track under two bridges at Meldreth and Shepreth Branch Jcn, that wiring of course took longer than anticipated and also concrete foundation work was carried out between Hitchin and Huntingdon before the East Coast scheme was given the go ahead, money probably found down the "back of the sofa".

[Mickey]

Thank you both Stevie and sandwhich for clarifying what I thought regarding the original idea of only 'wiring up' the slow lines beyond or approaching Woolmer Green. Strange I haven't even thought about that for nearly 50 years until it started to ring a bell in the back of my mind several days ago. I presume I may of heard of that idea being mentioned when I was still at WGC s/box between 1972-74?. It just show you what you keep in the back of your mind for 50 years!.

[Mickey]

With a small wiring scheme now going on at Barking Riverside, I wonder if anybody at Network Rail has thought about keeping this team together for two more small tying up schemes in London, Acton Wells to Acton Lane then Junction Road to Carlton Road.

Yeah it came as a bit of a surprise to me when back in the spring of 2016 at the start of the Gospel Oak-Barking line electrification project to find out that the double-track line between Junction Road Jn on the Gospel Oak-Barking line & Carlton Road Jn on the Midland main line and are offically known as the 'Tottenham lines' were not going to be elecritfied but I heard that they would be at some stage in the future. Those Tottenham lines are only used by a handful of weekday freight trains usually and it is not uncommon to have no trains at all using those connecting lines between the Midland main line and the Tottenham & Hampstead lines for two or three days in a row. The line between Junction Road Jn & Carlton Road Jn is virtually all out of sight to the travelling public except where the Up & Down Tottenham lines feed into the Up & Down Tottenham & Hampstead lines at Junction Road Jn. At the other end of the double-track section at Carlton Road Jn both lines after parting company with the Midland main line enter the first of two tunnels almost immediately before they re-emerge again for a short distance out into the open around the Mortimer street area before again re-entering into another shorter tunnel and then after passing through that tunnel the lines re-emerging again out into the open for a short distance into a deep cutting that is on a rising gradient on the approach to Junction Road Jn but befotre reaching Junction Road Jn both lines pass through a dark man made covered way before finally emerging out into the open again to finally arrive at Junction Road Jn with the Tottenham & Hampstead lines between Gospel Oak & Barking.

[sandwhich]

Have been picking up that Network Rail are trying to persuade the ORR to allow them to finish off the third rail electrification south of the Thames starting off with the Hurst Green to Uckfield route. Of course if the ORR agree to this it will ten years at least before its all done. Lets hope that common sense prevails as we all know these infills should have been done years ago.

[sandwhich]

With electrification in England quite rightly going ahead on Trans Pennine and a bit slower on East Midlands money for future schemes will become tighter, but there should be no reason for a smaller team to be set up to infill parts such as Thames Gateway, Willesden, Acton and Didcot to Oxford the latter tying in with the Oxford Station modernisation (remember the very similar pre 1988 Royston-Cambridge dmu shuttle) other schemes such as Newbury to Bedwyn could follow on then of course finishing off the Great Western. Yes it would take a few years to get there but something must surely happen or has common sense finally gone out of the window.

[Mickey]

With electrification in England quite rightly going ahead on Trans Pennine and a bit slower on East Midlands money for future schemes will become tighter, but there should be no reason for a smaller team to be set up to infill parts such as Thames Gateway, Willesden, Acton and Didcot to Oxford the latter tying in with the Oxford Station modernisation (remember the very similar pre 1988 Royston-Cambridge dmu shuttle) other schemes such as Newbury to Bedwyn could follow on then of course finishing off the Great Western. Yes it would take a few years to get there but something must surely happen or has common sense finally gone out of the window.

With regards to the Royston-Cambridge shuttle service provided in it's time by a x2 car Cravens unit I presume possibly part of the reason why the GN Electrification project of the 1970s didn't go beyond Royston may have been due to the old B.R. regional boundary set up that still applied during the later years of British Rail between Hitchin and Royston which was former GN/LNER and beyond Royston towards Shepreth Branch Junction and finally Cambridge it was GE/LNER.

[StevieG]

" .... I presume possibly part of the reason why the GN Electrification project of the 1970s didn't go beyond Royston may have been due to the old B.R. regional boundary set up that still applied during the later years of British Rail between Hitchin and Royston .... ".

Actually as all was part of the Eastern Region, that boundary (between Royston and Meldreth) would have been either that between the Divisions, or if the Div.s had gone, the Areas, Mickey.
And I think it was only about 1987 when the boundary beyond Royston became a Regional one, with Cambridge & north, south and east thereof split off from Eastern Region and made made the new BR Anglia Region.

[Mickey]

" .... I presume possibly part of the reason why the GN Electrification project of the 1970s didn't go beyond Royston may have been due to the old B.R. regional boundary set up that still applied during the later years of British Rail between Hitchin and Royston .... ".

Actually as all was part of the Eastern Region, that boundary (between Royston and Meldreth) would have been either that between the Divisions, or if the Div.s had gone, the Areas, Mickey.
And I think it was only about 1987 when the boundary beyond Royston became a Regional one, with Cambridge & north, south and east thereof split off from Eastern Region and made made the new BR Anglia Region.

Yes it was all Eastern Region Stevie but you could tell when travelling across the branch when you was travelling on the former GN length and when you was travelling on the former GE length even into the middle 1970s by the origins of the signal boxes and station buildings between Cambridge Junction and Royston and beyond Royston to Shepreth Branch Junction.

When I did my little stint as a Kings Cross secondman between 1974-1975 and when I was in 4A gang the 'Cambridge link' I spent quite a lot of time travelling over 'the Cambridge branch' between Kings Cross, Hitchin and Cambridge during the second half or 1974 and the first half of 1975 although that in its self doesn't mean much other than I travelled over that road quite a bit and usually on a Finsbury Park 'blue' livered Brush type 2 (class 31s) although when on the double-Cambridge diagram that was usually a Eastern Region 'blue' livered 'Peak' (class 46) during 1974-1975 and that was a pretty exhausting diagram to work to be honest even for a 17-18 year old young man as I was back then ha ha ha...

I believe I read years ago that the Hitchin-Cambridge branch or more exactly the Hitchin Cambridge Junction-Shepreth Branch Junction length was originally a GN&GE Joint owned railway with the GN having 'running powers' into Cambridge.

[Hatfield Shed]

...I believe I read years ago that the Hitchin-Cambridge branch or more exactly the Hitchin Cambridge Junction-Shepreth Branch Junction length was originally a GN&GE Joint owned railway with the GN having 'running powers' into Cambridge.

It's a technicality, but it wasn't a jointly owned route. GNR from Hitchin to Shepreth, end on junction to the GER's Shepreth to Cambridge branch with the running powers you mention for the GNR to access Cambridge. The GER had no rights to operate on the GNR section AFAIK.

Am I the only person who when travelling South from Cambridge, completes the on-train announcement of 'reths' by making a trio thus: Shepreth, Meldreth, Dogsbreth ?

[sandwhich]

It would also seem that the Network Rail plan to electrify Hurst Green to Uckfield has been shunted away into a siding, probably because of the nothing less than ORR bloody mindedless along with financial concerns at NR. If ORR feels that 3rd rail is unsafe then order a total switch off. No of course not.

[Mickey]

It's a technicality, but it wasn't a jointly owned route. GNR from Hitchin to Shepreth, end on junction to the GER's Shepreth to Cambridge branch with the running powers you mention for the GNR to access Cambridge. The GER had no rights to operate on the GNR section AFAIK.

Am I the only person who when travelling South from Cambridge, completes the on-train announcement of 'reths' by making a trio thus: Shepreth, Meldreth, Dogsbreth ?

Ok Hatfield Shed it was more technical than what I described it thanks. With regards to announcements the station announcements and also 'on board' train announcements of calling Letchworth station LETCHWORTH GARDEN CITY which possibly dates from the 1990s privatisation 'gets right up my nose' for some reason maybe because in the 'good old B.R. days' it was just called LETCHWORTH only?.

[Mickey]

Back to the Electrification topic heading...

With regards to the Gospel Oak-Woodgrange Park (Barking) electrification I was on that route for the entire project.

From memory the preparatory 'on site' surveying work of the route commenced sometime during 2015 although no doubt the 'office work' probably started a year or to earlier.

The actual 'on site' work commenced in April 2016 and lasted for about 12 months (one year) when all the lineside structures and the overhead wires were erected and the wires were in place between Gospel Oak and on the immediate approach to South Tottenham station where the new 'overheads' joined the existing overhead wires through South Tottenham station. The second new electrified section was east of South Tottenham station to Woodgrange Park Junction where the new overhead wires joined the existing overhead wires of the former LT&S line. When all the work was completed it was quiet for several weeks I presume to permit an 'inspection' of the whole route before any AC trains were run. Finally the 25.000kv overhead wires were 'ENERGISED' during May 2017 after which there was a period of running each newly built AC units that were allocated to work the Gospel Oak-Barking line service up and down the entire line usually during the weekday early hours with each new unit usually making 3-trips Down road and 3-trips Up road and then back to Willesden TMD shed although when the electrified service did commence a number of 'borrowed' North London line AC units were used for a few short months until the newly built Gospel oak-Barking AC units gradually came into service and thus releasing the North London line AC units to go back to work on the Euston-Watford services.