Having purchased no 13 in "The District Controller's View" on the North London, I've started to analyse the working timetable for a day in the 1950s that the book includes. Eventually I'll probably post something on here as the NLR keeps cropping up.
Meanwhile I've a couple of queries.
First, the symbol "w" occurs alongside times at Kingsland (and perhaps elsewhere). I assume this means either:
- whistle for the specified number of minutes for the entertainment of local residents, or
- take water. (Taking water at destinations is not specified.)
Secondly, some trains are classified as "EBV". What does the "E" stand for? Further questions are prompted, such as:
- what trains were permitted to run without a guard? I can recall short milk trains without brake vans, for instance, but fully fitted freights all had brake vans.
- given the volume of unfitted freights, what proportion of brake vans weren't fitted?
- did trains of brake vans invariably require a guard?
When you start going into detail you realise the gaps in your knowledge even though you were there at the time.
Kudu
WORKING TIMETABLES - WHAT DOES THIS MEAN?
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StevieG
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Re: WORKING TIMETABLES - WHAT DOES THIS MEAN?
As far as I recall the E in EBV was 'Engine', as in loco + brake van.
Not sure about 'w'; One or two of your more plausible possible suggestions could hold the truth, though (more recently at least), I think it's been one of a few ('u'?, 'v'?, 'w'?) used in a few locations where the table only has a 'depart' line for a station, and the letter is inserted in the middle of the single quoted time (a la "12v02"), to show an occasional train timed to spend longer there than the elsewhere-therein-prescribed standard station calling allowance : E.g., something like; -
" 'u' - arrives 1 / 1 1/2 minutes earlier ;
'v' - arrives 2 / 2 1/2 minutes earlier ;
'w' - arrives 3 / 3 1/2 minutes earlier ".
Not sure about 'w'; One or two of your more plausible possible suggestions could hold the truth, though (more recently at least), I think it's been one of a few ('u'?, 'v'?, 'w'?) used in a few locations where the table only has a 'depart' line for a station, and the letter is inserted in the middle of the single quoted time (a la "12v02"), to show an occasional train timed to spend longer there than the elsewhere-therein-prescribed standard station calling allowance : E.g., something like; -
" 'u' - arrives 1 / 1 1/2 minutes earlier ;
'v' - arrives 2 / 2 1/2 minutes earlier ;
'w' - arrives 3 / 3 1/2 minutes earlier ".
BZOH
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Re: WORKING TIMETABLES - WHAT DOES THIS MEAN?
I've just had a quick look at some 1950s and 60s working timetables.
At the front of each one is an explanation of the various letters used :
In most cases a "W" inserted between the hours and minutes figures at a station or other stopping point is used to indicate "Stops only for water".
In a North Eastern Region copy for Summer 1949 "W" is shown as stop must be made, engine may take water. WQ indicates stops only for engine to take water if required.
EBV or E&V (NE Region) is engine and brake van
Hope this helps
Edit: It is also very interesting if you can look up the line in the relevant Sectional Appendix (sometimes to found secondhand at exhibitions, preserved lines, s/h bookshops etc) as they give details of speed limits, signalling systems, running lines, refuge sidings catch points and specific working instructions amongst other things, including details of locations where freight vehicles may be worked without a brake van at the rear.
Unfortunately my earliest copy of the southern part of the London Midland Region was issued in 1980, earlier ones do turn up, but as with all such literature prices seem to be increasing.
David
At the front of each one is an explanation of the various letters used :
In most cases a "W" inserted between the hours and minutes figures at a station or other stopping point is used to indicate "Stops only for water".
In a North Eastern Region copy for Summer 1949 "W" is shown as stop must be made, engine may take water. WQ indicates stops only for engine to take water if required.
EBV or E&V (NE Region) is engine and brake van
Hope this helps
Edit: It is also very interesting if you can look up the line in the relevant Sectional Appendix (sometimes to found secondhand at exhibitions, preserved lines, s/h bookshops etc) as they give details of speed limits, signalling systems, running lines, refuge sidings catch points and specific working instructions amongst other things, including details of locations where freight vehicles may be worked without a brake van at the rear.
Unfortunately my earliest copy of the southern part of the London Midland Region was issued in 1980, earlier ones do turn up, but as with all such literature prices seem to be increasing.
David
You may enjoy my photos which have now moved to flickr from the sadly missed fotopic.
They can be found at: http://www.flickr.com/photos/davidwf2009/
They can be found at: http://www.flickr.com/photos/davidwf2009/
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Mickey
Re: WORKING TIMETABLES - WHAT DOES THIS MEAN?
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Last edited by Mickey on Tue Apr 29, 2014 1:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: WORKING TIMETABLES - WHAT DOES THIS MEAN?
Thanks for your replies.
It's obvious once you know that "E" stands for "engine", though at least I was right in guessing what an EBV train was.
A quick glance suggests 5 mins might be the minimum time for a "w", at least at Kingsland.
In the book I'm using explanatory notes are omitted but it claims to be a first in combining three WTTs to give a complete picture. It doesn't say, but I assume it's a weekday and it's dated 1953.
Eventually I will publish the fruits of my labours here.
Meanwhile any answers to my other questions on brake vans are welcomed (though they have no direct bearing on my analysis).
Kudu
It's obvious once you know that "E" stands for "engine", though at least I was right in guessing what an EBV train was.
A quick glance suggests 5 mins might be the minimum time for a "w", at least at Kingsland.
In the book I'm using explanatory notes are omitted but it claims to be a first in combining three WTTs to give a complete picture. It doesn't say, but I assume it's a weekday and it's dated 1953.
Eventually I will publish the fruits of my labours here.
Meanwhile any answers to my other questions on brake vans are welcomed (though they have no direct bearing on my analysis).
Kudu
Re: WORKING TIMETABLES - WHAT DOES THIS MEAN?
"- what trains were permitted to run without a guard? I can recall short milk trains without brake vans, for instance, but fully fitted freights all had brake vans."
AFAIK ALL trains would have a guard.
As late as 1977 on my local line (Sunderland to Pallion and Deptford) trains would leave the brake van at Pallion and descend the steep line to Deptford with the Guard riding in the cab. On one occasion I was offered a ride to Sunderland South Dock in the cab of the 08 shunter and the Driver, Guard, Shunter and me were packed into cab - all good fun!
AFAIK ALL trains would have a guard.
As late as 1977 on my local line (Sunderland to Pallion and Deptford) trains would leave the brake van at Pallion and descend the steep line to Deptford with the Guard riding in the cab. On one occasion I was offered a ride to Sunderland South Dock in the cab of the 08 shunter and the Driver, Guard, Shunter and me were packed into cab - all good fun!