The "What if?" Thread - To Discuss Alternative Histories

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manna
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Re: The "What if?" Thread - To Discuss Alternative Histories

Post by manna »

G'Day Gents

Taking this 'what if thread' back a bit further back in time, what if the Romans took the 'Greek' knowledge of steam, by some fella called 'Arry Stotall' :) and mixed it with one of there chariots (which ran in grooves in the road) could we have ended up with 'Roman Railways'.

The Roman Empire, could have lasted for many more centuries, thanks to steam power :shock:

manna


Please note--- this did not happen in the real world, only mine,.........sad eh!!
EDGWARE GN, Steam in the Suburbs.
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52D
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Re: The "What if?" Thread - To Discuss Alternative Histories

Post by 52D »

Although they managed to get the gauge correct, apparently on Malta there are grooves in the rock from the passage of chariots at 4 foot 8 1/2 inches.
Hi interested in the area served by 52D. also researching colliery wagonways from same area.
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Re: The "What if?" Thread - To Discuss Alternative Histories

Post by mr B »

just a thought .. its a good job (what if ?) that Brunell was'nt into airoplanes :lol:

mr b
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coachmann
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Re: The "What if?" Thread - To Discuss Alternative Histories

Post by coachmann »

What if the dead hand of Andersen hadn't prevailed over LMS locomotive policy at the LMS in Fowlers time?

1) Instead of the feeble out of date Compounds, The LNWR Prince of Wales 4-6-0's (with thicker main frames) might have become a standard LMS type with Fowler tenders so that the later Black Five really would have been an improved POW!

2) The 'Austin Seven' 7F 0-8-0's would have pulled houses down without any detriment to their axleboxes and Stanier would have done a taper boiler version 7F... :D
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Re: The "What if?" Thread - To Discuss Alternative Histories

Post by kudu »

coachmann wrote:What if the dead hand of Andersen hadn't prevailed over LMS locomotive policy at the LMS in Fowlers time?
3] And we would have had Garratts good enough to last until I had a chance of seeing one.

Kudu
Mickey

Re: The "What if?" Thread - To Discuss Alternative Histories

Post by Mickey »

What if Earle Marsh had taken over the C.M.E from H.A.Ivatt at Doncaster instead of him going off to the Liver, bacon & sausage company (L.B.& S.C. Rly) and blocking Nigel Gresley to the top job?. The G.N. could have had 'another' atlantic (a Marsh atlantic) instead of a Gresley pacific?. :lol:
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Re: The "What if?" Thread - To Discuss Alternative Histories

Post by williamfj2 »

What if Sans Pareil & Novelty DIDN'T fail & Rocket DID during the Rainhill trials, how would the railways have developed if the Novelty design (which wasn't particularly good) or Hackworth's Sans Pareil (which was the best of the 'old order') design were adopted? Another more extreme one would be: What if Rocket failed to impress & the L&M directors adopted stationary engine haulage rather than locos?
I should point out that I don't regard Rocket as the single leap from the colliery loco to the sleek main line locos; I see Rocket as the (not so) missing link between man & ape.
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coachmann
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Re: The "What if?" Thread - To Discuss Alternative Histories

Post by coachmann »

The important step for mankind was Rocket's tubed boiler I believe. Think about it....firebox at back, smokebox at front, multi-boiler tubes drawing fire and raising steam, and outside cylinders. What does it remind you of? ....Evening Star
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Re: The "What if?" Thread - To Discuss Alternative Histories

Post by richard »

Yes the Hackworth designed survived quite a while. Maybe the L&M might not have ordered a lot of Rocket/Northumbrians but locomotives along the Lancashire Witch/Rocket/Northumbrian design would have become the norm quite quickly - almost certainly within a decade.

Novelty was popular with the crowds and reportedly had quite an acceleration but lacked power and had a vulnerable design. If it had won, then perhaps the L&M might have bought a few but they'd probably also buy some bigger grunts from someone like Hackworth or Stephenson.


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Re: The "What if?" Thread - To Discuss Alternative Histories

Post by williamfj2 »

My argument is that still had steeply inclined cylinders and the firebox doesn't cover the entire boiler rear. For me Planet was the first express loco, proper frames, horizontal cylinders and a full firebox.
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Re: The "What if?" Thread - To Discuss Alternative Histories

Post by richard »

There are lots of things that could be considered important that became standard in later designs. Some go back a long way - eg. Trevithick discovered the value of a blast pipe.

The multi-tubed boiler on Rocket has already been mentioned, but probably equally important is the direct drive on Lancashire Witch. Earlier designs were primarily "grasshoppers" with cylinders typically inside the boiler and driving the wheels through a system of levers.

The angle of the cylinders is much less important than the direct drive itself.


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