Help with research

[shipwreckz]

Hi Everybody!
Am new here and quite unfamiliar with locomotives but am attempting to research a couple of Stanier 8F's. I am currently working on a website dedicated to shipwrecks located off of all of Egypt's coasts (not just the Red Sea) and am doing some research on the S.S. Thistlegorm which was sunk during WWII by a German Heinkel on the night of 06 October 1940 while at anchor. The ship was carrying a cargo of BSA motorcycles, Enfield rifles, and 2 Stanier 8F locomotives, 2 coal tenders, and a couple of water tankers which were destined for delivery to the British army located in Alexandria, Egypt.

Much has been written about the ship itself and diving the wreck (which is a REALLY great dive!). However, I am trying to track down exactly which Staniers are located on the seabed next to the wreck. If anyone has any information about this I would appreciate it if you could pass it along.

Thanks,
Mike

[AndyG]

Hi Mike,
I can't help with the Staniers but I'm pretty confident that the first picture labelled 'coalcar' is actually one of the water tankers whose barrel has been crushed by the water pressure (or explosion).
While Googling for a modern picture of a similar type for comparison I across this http://www.the-hewsons.demon.co.uk/newitems.htm part way down.
In your picture you can see the beam which holds the end of the tank and the diagonal tie rod which supports it.

Andy

[Caledonian]

Not directly an LNER-related question, but...

The two Staniers will have been new build specifically for the British Army rather than ex-LMS ones. At the outset of World War 2 they were identified as the most suitable design of heavy haulage loco for the army's needs, but once Robin Riddles got properly into his stride he cancelled the orders in favour of the WD 2-8-0 which was basically a stripped down austerity version of the same.

Oddly enough of course there is an LNER connection in that both a fair number of Dub-Dees were taken over by the LNER, and also some 8Fs once production restarted.

[Bill Bedford]

Much has been written about the ship itself and diving the wreck (which is a REALLY great dive!). However, I am trying to track down exactly which Staniers are located on the seabed next to the wreck. If anyone has any information about this I would appreciate it if you could pass it along.

Try Heavy Goods Engines of the War Department Vol 2 Stanier 8F, JWP Rowledge, Springmead Railway Books, 1977

[richard]

I'm moving this thread over to "Railway Chat". Definitely an interesting topic, but not LNER as such.

Richard

[shipwreckz]

Hi All,
Thanks for the input, greatly appreciated. And yes Andy, I stand corrected about the coal car. After going back over the dive site layout I realized that I was mistaken and that the coal car is actually one of the water "mules". The coal cars are located aft of the water carriers, one each being located on the port and starboard sides of the ship by hold No. 2. The water carriers are located forward by hold No. 1.

The Staniers 8F's in question would have been built prior to May 1941 when the ship left Glasgow, Scotland with the locomotives onboard. Which means that these locomotives weren't built by LNER (LNER produced 60 8F's for the War Department between June 1943 and September 1945).

Will have to find a copy of the Heavy Goods Engines book mentioned.

Thanks again for all of the information.
Mike