re-nationalisation.

[burnie]

We could start building more steam engines and digging for coal, that would both create jobs and entice folk back onto the trains...……………………...

[Seagull]

I presume the current use of the LNER letters on the ECML are just a marketing ploy.

Much as in 1922....

At least the LMS managed to get Scotland into their name.

Alan

[Mickey]

I presume the current use of the LNER letters on the ECML are just a marketing ploy.

Much as in 1922....

At least the LMS managed to get Scotland into their name.

I have a liking for the old LNWR/LMS/B.R.(MR).

Re-nationalisation?. British Railways was good during the 1950s-1970s with the regional set up with the LMR ER WR SR & Scottish Region

'Mickey 4500 previous posts'

[Mickey]

We could start building more steam engines and digging for coal, that would both create jobs and entice folk back onto the trains...……………………...

An excellent idea burnie so if it's a return to this- https://preservedbritishsteamlocomotive ... y-1967.jpg lets re-nationalise ASAP.

A grimy 9F no.92250 moves off the Carlisle Kingmoor turntable in February 1967 during the last full year of steam at Kingmoor.

[brsince78]

I think what is needed is a change in structure not ownership. Vertical integration or why not even BR PLC...… The obvious argument against this I that it would create a monopoly. But a monopoly of what? Rail travel is one of many modes of travel.

[Mickey]

From memory the first two or three years in the aftermath of privatisation was a funny time being on the job as the old established ways and practices of working the job were by and large swept away by an influx of new non-railway minded management and staff recruited 'off the street' after many staff who had come on the railways during the 1950s & 1960s finished up and left. Out on the track it all became a bit like the 'wild west' out there where once B.R. p.way men would attend to track maintenance overnight the same men worked for contractors who also subcontracted work out to non-railway people. The railway it's self that had once been separated by the old regional boundaries such as the WR, LMR, ER, or SR were either joined up or abolished and just became Railtrack country wide along with the introduction of the TOCs when B.R. had run the trains. Thinking about it now 25 years on it was all a bit of a culture shock to be honest for some of us guys who had come on the railways during the 1960s & 1970s that nobody gave any consideration to.

Mickey 48 years service on the railways...

[kudu]

I think what is needed is a change in structure not ownership.

I used to say there is good news and bad news about rail privatisation. The good news is that IF you want to privatise then the way the railway has been organised is probably right. The bad news is that I'm talking about the Isle of Wight.

Kudu

[kudu]

Hmm. Bring back the LNER? But hang on, hasn't someone started using those letters recently?

I think there is scope for a thesis on 'Railways, Politicians and the Press'. Perhaps I should start developing one, but there is so much (model) railway building to do first.


There is a recent book by A.J.Mullay 'Grouping Britain's Railways'. I need to re-read it thoroughly, but on first reading it challenges quite a lot of what I thought I understood about Geddes and post WW1 conditions.

I found the Mullay book disappointing on the whole. Not well written, with a rather incoherent structure. (Endless "we'll return to this later".) I would strongly recommend Michael Bonavia's "The Four Great Railways", which covers the same territory in one chapter, though much more succinctly and without Mullay's detail, as part of his wider remit. Well organised, well written.

I did write on the Grouping myself, drawing on both books, for my local rail society's periodical, focusing on the various schemes considered. It doesn't fit under this thread, but maybe I should post it? (2,500 words.) I don't want to claim too much for it, but it is probably the only piece on the subject that includes the Monopoly board.

Kudu

[drmditch]

I do agree that Mr Mullay's book is not terribly well written, so is not easy to read. The information it presents however is certainly interesting, if it is accurate. I am in the middle of re-reading it.

It always worries me when authors make an error concerning a subject I do know about, because then I worry about what other errors they may have made in areas that I don't know about. On page 10 there is a statement that the seaplane carrier Engadine was 'the only non-armoured ship' to serve at Jutland. I haven't checked detail sources yet, but I am fairly sure that the hundreds of destroyers on both sides didn't carry heavy stuff like armour.

(Please note that I'm not intending to re-ignite a Jutland debate on this thread or this forum!)

[kudu]

I do agree that Mr Mullay's book is not terribly well written, so is not easy to read. The information it presents however is certainly interesting, if it is accurate. I am in the middle of re-reading it.

It always worries me when authors make an error concerning a subject I do know about, because then I worry about what other errors they may have made in areas that I don't know about.

I know the feeling. Random House published a massive history of London suburbs a few years back. The railway part is full of major errors on a spectacular scale. Can't understand how it could have happened unless the writer, with no initial knowledge of the subject, crammed the night before and tried to write from memory.

On the Grouping, I still recommend Bonavia's book over Mullay's, though better still would be to read both.

Kudu

[sandwhich]

Its not getting any better is it, I have picked up that First Group are in internal trouble with one part saying that they want to see First out of what they called the "destructive" rail industry. The "bus bandits" as they were once called are dropping out one by one first National Express whose present Md said that they would be mad to go back into the rail industry, then Stagecoach told to go away, Arriva not knowing where they will end up, and Abbellio rumoured to have been told by the Dutch government they should now not bid for anymore franchises. Now it seems that Trentalia who have c2c seem to have little interest in bidding for anymore franchises. The DfT adrift because not only of their incompetence but the political situation could well mean a new Transport Secretary in a matter of weeks, you really could not make it up. Someone somewhere had better take control of the situation or one day a Railtrack to Network Rail situation could come about.

[sandwhich]

Does anybody anywhere know what is now going on in the rail industry, it now seems that the LNER franchise may stand as it is until 2025, the South Eastern franchise has had two extensions on its franchise deal with the bidding now scrapped, what's going to happen next May when this franchise runs out the bidding process re started in the meantime or the state taking over another extension is surely not on. Virgin, Stagecoach and Arriva have now been given leave by the High Court to challenge the Government over franchise bids. I doubt if John Cleese could have made this all up as regards a Monty Python script.