BR double arrow

[1H was 2E]

Doncaster seemed to prefer "touch up and revarnish" (TUV) of the green but applied the corporate double arrow and the new typeface for D and numbers (in white) to it. Brush 2s (all maintained at Doncaster) in blue were noticeably rare for a quite a while after 1966.

I wonder if this might have been due to the re-engine programme, which would have meant most of them would not have been due for a major overhaul until well after the blue era began?

Possible; but Doncaster certainly seemed to return to service other classes without repainting blue; the baby Deltics seemed also to retain green after a works visit, though probably their short likely future may have been a factor. The other main work was shunters and I have a photo of a Blackstone in green with a double arrow, but this might have been just a panel swap, and that class, too, had a small life expectancy.

As regards electric locos; the original AC locos (and Woodhead electrics after transfer of maintenance to Crewe) were painted in a "truer" blue originally, and of course this is different to corporate blue. My (edited out) post was to ask the question whether the AL6s (and, indeed, contemporary repaints of AL1-5) after 1965 were in electric blue or corporate blue; I have a couple of photos of A:L5 and AL6 which appear to be in corporate blue though they retain the raised chromium letter/numbers and lion. The AL6s were being introduced as part of "Britain's New Railway" (sorry, East Coast fans) and it's surprising that tha full modern image was not adopted.

And here's another style of the late sixties; blue, white numbers, neither BR crest nor double arrow (and blue roof and red buffer beams) Pretty sure these were done at Toton; not sure that this was corporate blue. This interregnum never seems to get remembered; but, to be fair, most enthusiasts had more pressing targets for their cameras than freshly painted diesels in 1967-68.

[Mickey]

A 'named Peak' eh 1H was 2E nice.

I use to like the occasional foray across the road to st Pancras and cop a few Peaks & Birmingham Sulzers it made a nice change from the usual diet of Deltics, Brush type 2s & 4s at the Cross.

Did any grimy Black 5s in the north west circa 1968 ever wear the 'unofficial' double arrows (Inter City) sign on there tenders for a joke?.

[D2100]

Doncaster seemed to prefer "touch up and revarnish" (TUV) of the green but applied the corporate double arrow and the new typeface for D and numbers (in white) to it. Brush 2s (all maintained at Doncaster) in blue were noticeably rare for a quite a while after 1966.

I wonder if this might have been due to the re-engine programme, which would have meant most of them would not have been due for a major overhaul until well after the blue era began?

Possible; but Doncaster certainly seemed to return to service other classes without repainting blue; the baby Deltics seemed also to retain green after a works visit, though probably their short likely future may have been a factor. The other main work was shunters and I have a photo of a Blackstone in green with a double arrow, but this might have been just a panel swap, and that class, too, had a small life expectancy.

Few points to augment this. The 30 to 31 re-engining spanned the years 1964 to 1969, but Doncaster did have its idiosyncracies anyway with regard to transition liveries. OTTOMH, there were a few 204 and 350hp shunters, many 31s, one Deltic (number 10) and one Baby Deltic (5908) that received arrows on green. incidentally, 5909 went blue before withdrawal.

There were also a few 37s that ran in green with arrows, though I'm not sure where they were done; possibly S Wales depot jobs.

Once 31s started to be done in blue, the Plant continued awhile with the 'arrows on cabsides, numbers behind cab' style that at other works was superseded by the 'single arrow centrally' around the end of 1968 or early '69.

Touching up and revarnishing of green was done at other works though, certainly on BR type 2s (24/25) at Derby and (very numerously) Brush 47s at Crewe. Although arrows weren't commonly applied to these classes in green, if at all, the 47s almost always had asymmetric (blue-style) number transfers put on.

And here's another style of the late sixties; blue, white numbers, neither BR crest nor double arrow (and blue roof and red buffer beams) Pretty sure these were done at Toton; not sure that this was corporate blue. .

I think the figure for the 'economy blue' Peaks was 20 or so, and yes, they were done at Toton as a crash programme in 1966. The debate as to whether it was pukka Rail Blue will go on and on, but my opinion is that it was, but looked different as a function of how it was applied and the relative lack of yellow. It can be surprising how a relatively small area of a colour can lighten the overall impression; I've checked this by comparing broadside shots of economy blue Peaks with standard ones and the difference is negligible.

[strang steel]

A few class 15s had the arrows on green, D8213/31/34 being three that I can think of, although none were painted blue. I wonder if Stratford added those?

[1H was 2E]

A few class 15s had the arrows on green, D8213/31/34 being three that I can think of, although none were painted blue. I wonder if Stratford added those?

Also D8242, by Jan 1967. The D8200s were, according to RO, regularly visiting Doncaster Works during 1966; D8213 there 6 Feb 66. The RO only records locos on the occasion of a visit, so is not exhaustive, but the locos listed include ones that did not receive the double arrow, and does not list ones that did, suggesting that the arrows were not applied at Doncaster. My photo of D8242(which had received the arrows by Jan 67) at 30A shows that the older typeface had been retained for the D and numerals does suggest Stratford, because known Doncaster touch ups replaced letter/number as well as arrow.

The jury is out on D3496, at Doncaster 4-2-68; although the panel on which the double arrow is painted may be blue (and therefore transferred from another loco) the older BR emblem would probably have been on the running board box, and this shows no trace. This suggests that the double arrow was applied together with the removal of the old emblem, i.e., as a deliberate act rather than the random exchange of a bonnet panel.

[D2100]

A few class 15s had the arrows on green, D8213/31/34 being three that I can think of, although none were painted blue. I wonder if Stratford added those?

I forgot about the BTHs. Probably both Donny and Stratford, I certainly remember seeing 8228 standing outside the Plant like that.

[

The jury is out on D3496, at Doncaster 4-2-68; although the panel on which the double arrow is painted may be blue (and therefore transferred from another loco) the older BR emblem would probably have been on the running board box, and this shows no trace. This suggests that the double arrow was applied together with the removal of the old emblem, i.e., as a deliberate act rather than the random exchange of a bonnet panel.

That paint under the arrow looks fresh green to me rather than blue; TBH any blue loco around at that time would have been very freshly outshopped and unlikely to have been robbed for a door.

[Nortonboy]

Thanks for all the informative replies. I have long been lead to believe that the symbol is indicative of two running lines and the direction of traffic on them. I would surmise from that that the Sealink logo is reversed for the very reason that shipping passes on the opposite side. Am I correct?

[D2100]

Yep, that's my understanding

[1H was 2E]

I would surmise from that that the Sealink logo is reversed for the very reason that shipping passes on the opposite side. Am I correct?

Err, no. The reason for the logo being reversed (on one side of the funnel only - the other side is 'normal') is because, on boats, the line 'logo' is carried on a flag. There can only be one design on a flag (conventionally, flags made by dying fabric), so one side must be the reverse of the other. Logical when you think about it!