For signallers old and new?

[strang steel]

Has anyone had any experience of this software site and/or its products?

http://www.blockpostsoftware.co.uk/downloads.php

I have tried the Yapton Crossing software and can just about cope with 2 trains in 15 minutes and the level crossing, but I took one look at Gloucester Road Junction and almost had a seizure.

Not LNER (at least not yet) I know, but the lever frames, bells and block equipment do appear to me to be quite realistic.

[Mickey]

I have tried the Yapton Crossing software and can just about cope with 2 trains in 15 minutes and the level crossing, but I took one look at Gloucester Road Junction and almost had a seizure.

Not LNER (at least not yet) I know, but the lever frames, bells and block equipment do appear to me to be quite realistic.

Obviously you can't beat the real thing but for those who want to 'experience' doing a bit of signalling i suppose it's ok although i've never tried one of these simulators because i get enough of doing the real thing every day.

[PinzaC55]

I used to have a disc which had a signalling simulator for Leicester Midland. I came away with a new respect for signalmen as I watched the traffic blocked back due to my incompetence

[Mickey]

The last of the great days of main line railway signalling in this country with a fair number of mechanical s/boxes then still in use with block working and a mixture of semaphore and colour light signals probably finished with the closure of the 'Leicester gap' on the Midland route out of stPancras between Irchester south s/box & beyond Syston north junction at Sileby s/box back in 1987.

Actually the kid's that play on signalling simulators today are tomorrows signaller's believe it or not.

[PinzaC55]

The last of the great days of main line railway signalling in this country with a fair number of mechanical s/boxes then still in use with block working and a mixture of semaphore and colour light signals probably finished with the closure of the 'Leicester gap' on the Midland route out of stPancras between Irchester south s/box & beyond Syston north junction at Sileby s/box back in 1987.

Actually the kid's that play on signalling simulators today are tomorrows signaller's believe it or not.

It could be a rarified job now that York is going to take over a huge area - like being a Large Hadron Collider technician.

[Danby Wiske]

like being a Large Hadron Collider technician.

Surely the signalman's job is to avoid collisions, not encourage them!

[strang steel]

Although this is not a modern box simulation site, with lit panels and headcodes displayed.

The simulations on the site I quoted are copies of 1930's boxes, where all the bell codes and replies, plus all the signal/point levers, have to been done in strict order or an error is logged.

I don't like most of those modern signalling simulations because they only allow certain pre-determined movements. You cannot stop the entire GWML in order to allow an 08 to move around from one part of the station to another (as I once witnessed at Reading about 20 years ago). Platform alterations seem to be a no-no for passenger trains and the program gives negative points for using common sense in an emergency, if that particular move has not already been programmed into the simulation.

However, I am not sure about 'train entering section'/'out of section' bells, on the old version. Are they always acknowledged by the receiving box, and when precisely is a train in or out of the section?

Please forgive me as I am a total novice.

[PinzaC55]

like being a Large Hadron Collider technician.

Surely the signalman's job is to avoid collisions, not encourage them!

Very good

[Mickey]

...and when precisely is a train in or out of the section?.

Usually a signalman will give 'Train entering section' to the box in advance when the approaching train is about to pass his box and 'Train out of section' to the box in the rear when the passing train has passed his box complete with a tail lamp attached on the rear of the train (usually after putting the signals back behind the train). On Absolute block lines the 'acceptance' is the main thing to take into account usually before a signalman can accept a train from the signalman at the box in the rear in 'clear weather' he must have a quarter of a mile (or 440 yards) clear ahead of his home signal this is called 'the clearing point' which must not be infringed by another train usually fouling the clearing point. During fog & falling snow there are other types of acceptances like working 'double block' with the box in the rear if you havan't got a fogsignalman out at your semaphore distant signal (and maybe your home signal as well?) or if you have got a fogsignalman stationed at your semaphore distant signal you can suspend double block working and work normal again providing the 440 yards clearing point beyond the home signal is free?.

Of course like everything else on the railways there's always exceptions to the rule for example when i was at Western Junction on the North London line because it was fully track circuited between Caledonian Road onwards along the no.2 lines from Camden Road to Hackney Central and it was worked under Absolute block (on both the Up & Down no.2 lines) the Western Junction signalman could give 'Train out of section' to Camden Road before the approaching train had passed the box provided all the track circuits in the rear of the approaching train from Cannonbury Junction back to Caledonian Road station were showing clear then another train could be accepted from Camden Road with the first train in Cannonbury station.

[kudu]

If you're interested in the North London Line, Micky, you are probably already aware of the NLR volume in the "District Controller's View" series. This includes "snapshots" at half-hourly intervals of the trains on the whole system through 24 hours in 1953, as well as a 1953 working timetable. I just saw the trains or travelled the line to Broad Street, with little idea where all those freights were going.

Kudu

[Mickey]

No i wasn't aware of that Kudu thanks. Yes i know you've posted stuff before with referrence to the North London line and it was an interesting railway especially when it ran into Broad street.

I was at-

Victoria Park 1980-81.
Junction Road Junction 1981-85. (Midland Railway)
Upper Holloway (new box) 1985-87.
Western Junction 1987.
Camden Road Relief 1987-1990 covering Western Junction, Camden Road Junction, Upper Holloway, Gospel Oak, Willesden High Level, Willesden New Line, Acton Wells Junction, Acton Canal Wharf, Neasden Midland & Kew East Junction. (I never passed out Bollo Lane and as for Richmond, Dudding Hill, Harringay Park Junction & South Tottenham they wasn't our boxes back in the 1980s & early 1990s).
Upper Holloway 1990-92.
Camden Road 1992-2004.
Upper Holloway 2004-????.

[StevieG]

" .... The simulations on the site I quoted are copies of 1930's boxes, where all the bell codes and replies, plus all the signal/point levers, have to been done in strict order or an error is logged. ....

.... However, I am not sure about 'train entering section'/'out of section' bells, on the old version. Are they always acknowledged by the receiving box, and when precisely is a train in or out of the section? .... "

On when to send 'Out of Section', I would only add that, if a train passing the box has come from an Absolute Block (AB) section which requires the line to be clear to the (usually 1/4-mile) Clearing Point before accepting a train from the previous box, and if that Clearing Point is beyond your box, then it would be unwise to give 'Train Out of Section' (TOS) immediately on seeing a train's rear end, with tail lamp, pass the box (indicating train complete so 'between boxes' section is clear) unless its speed was fast enough that it is most unlikely it could possibly come to a stand before the rear end of the train also passes the CP.

Except for some companies' methods of working some less common types of section (Permissive Block lines was one example), it used to be that 'Train Entering Section' (TES) should be acknowledged by repetition by the receiving box [I recall it was practice in some BR-LMR areas, arising from the old Midland Railway (or was it old LNWR? Or both?) Signalling Regulations, that TES was acknowledged, not on the bell, but only by the changing of the Block Instrument to show 'Train On Line' (or equivalent) ].

I recall from the 1960s that there was a bit more variation about the AB TOS procedure.
The BR general standard was that TOS was supposed to be preceded by the sending and acknowledgement of the 1-beat 'Call Attention' (CA), and the 2-1 TOS bell signal was acknowledged by repetition.
However the WR Regs. still allowed the GWR method; - that there was no CA used at all for TOS, and the 2-1 did not have to be acknowledged either. And I've a feeling that the Southern Region was different again : No CA but 2-1 was acknowledged, I think it was.

[StevieG]

" .... I was at-

Victoria Park 1980-81.
Junction Road Junction 1981-85. (Midland Railway)
Upper Holloway (new box) 1985-87.
Western Junction 1987.
Camden Road Relief 1987-1990 covering Western Junction, Camden Road Junction, Upper Holloway, Gospel Oak, Willesden High Level, Willesden New Line, Acton Wells Junction, Acton Canal Wharf, Neasden Midland & Kew East Junction. (I never passed out Bollo Lane and as for Richmond, Dudding Hill, Harringay Park Junction & South Tottenham they wasn't our boxes back in the 1980s & early 1990s).
Upper Holloway 1990-92.
Camden Road 1992-2004.
Upper Holloway 2004-????.

I'll bet Willesden New Station (as I recall the box nameboard read) was rather different to the rest Micky.

A pity then, that you missed out on working (and probably too late to even be able to visit most of) :-
the two Broad Streets
Skinner Street Junction
New Inn Yard
Dunloe Street
Dalston Junction
Eastern Junction
Canonbury Station
Canonbury Junction
Highbury
Barnsbury
York Road Junction
Maiden Lane Junction
Hampstead Road
Upper Holloway (old)
Gospel Oak (old)
Hampstead Heath
Finchley Road (NL)
Kensal Green Junction
Old Oak Junction
Acton Central
South Acton Junction
& Bollo Lane Crossing ('midland') !

[Mickey]

All the above boxes that you have named Stevie yes i remember seeing them all even Broad street no.1, Skinner street Junction & New Inn Yard but those boxes were all closed by either late 1969 or early 1970 but were all still standing redundant in May of 1970.

In May of 1970 i managed to get into Broad street no.2 one Saturday afternoon followed by a visit to Dalston Junction about a month later in June of 1970, that was a curious box it had a Edwardian atmosphere about it inside with a North London Railway stirrup lever frame, B.R. block instruments for the no.1 & no.2 lines to & from Western Junction and the 'Electric lines' to & from Dunloe street topped off with a B.R.(LMR) track diagram of course.

Eastern Junction looked an interesting box situated in a remote place near a scrap yard and it may have still been gas lit also it had a strange colour light signal on the Down Poplar road heading towards Western Junction which i think had 3 heads but only one of the signal heads was illuminated to approaching trains usually if i remember correctly?.

I think one of the colour light heads (the illuminated one the other 2 were usually not illuminated) was Eastern Junction's home signal combined with Western Junctions colour light distant signal for the Down Poplar line to the Down no.1 lines at Western Junction?. The second colour light head may have been a 'splitting distant' for Western Junction from the Down Poplar to the Down no.2 line at Western Junction?. The third colour light head may have been the Junction signal for the triangle route towards Dalston Junction which if correct probably was also Dalston Junctions distant signal as well but by the 1970s that triangle route between Eastern Junction & Dalston Junction was lifted for the most part although there was a short part of it being used as a siding at the Eastern Junction end.

After saying all that it was probably nothing of the sort and either your good self or John knows what that signal was?.

Willesden New Line or Low Level?.

Yes that was another curious set up most of the work was done on a panel up one end of the box and it was all TCB working mainly with London Transport at Stonebridge Park & Queen's Park but there was also a LNWR stirrup lever frame of some 60 odd levers in the box for the station area and getting into & out of the Willesden TMD but usually the signalman didn't hardly touch the lever frame during a normal 8hrs shift except for a few movements.

Although i signed Willesden New Line i only ever worked it on about 14 or 15 occasions when i covered it on the relief in the late 1980s so i wouldn't say i really knew the box or lever frame that well?. If any lever pulling needed to be done either one of the booking boy's done it (2 older signalmen at the box on light duties doing the booking and phonework on a early & late turn each) or if i done it they'd tell me what levers to pull or put back in the frame or if i was on my own during the night i'd work off the box track diagram which meant you had to stop and look at the track diagram then look at the lever badges then look back at the track diagram again before you moved a lever?.

John (the signalman) may have worked Willesden New Line at some point in time himself?.

By the way a signalman giving Train out of section as you know some block instruments work in combination with the track circuits we had one at Upper Holloway whereby you could give Train out of section on the bell to Harringay Park Junction (or South Tottenham if Harringay was closed?) but you couldn't 'drop the needle' until the track circuit that extended from the home signal to the end of the 'clearing point' (440 yards) and was about 150 yards beyond the box was again clear after the passage of a train over that track circuit.

[R. pike]

For some reason i really can't get into these computer simulation thing's....i wonder why?