Holloway North Down box

[Mickey]

Hi Roy, thanks for posting a picture of Keith as he was in 2016. I knew Keith a little bit back around 1974-75 when I was a secondman at Kings Cross loco and Keith was a signalman at Holloway North Down (box) and then he transferred to becoming a passenger guard at Kings Cross possibly in 1975 on the suburban services after which I then left the railway towards the end of 1975 (but re-joined B.R. in early 1979) so I never saw him again. I remember Keith when he had black hair but that was 45+ years ago ha ha ha... Anyway good to know he's still around.

[thesignalman]

HI - I was sent this article and have joined so that I can contribute. I am Roy Challen (Brother of Keith Challen) I was a Guard at Kings Cross in the 70's. Keith started as a telegraph lad in 69 at KX. In later years he covered at many boxes including Finsbury Park No 3 and No 5 / New Barnet and a few others before he became permanent at Holloway Northdown. He now lives in Showburyness Essex. Here is the latest photo that I have of him.

Good day, Roy,

Please remember me to him. He trained me at Kings Cross in 1971. I blame him for all my subsequent shortcomings . . .

I last saw him at North Down, c1974/5 I guess.

John Hinson

[Mickey]

Question?. Why was Holloway North Down's Down fast, Down slow no.1 & Down slow no.2 lines semaphore starting signals heading towards Finsbury Park no.3 and carried on a bracket signal post fitted with individual detonator placer's that worked in conjunction with the individual signal arms that they were applicable to?. The Finsbury Park no.3 Down lines semaphore distant signals all carried on that lattice post gantry and from memory carried about seven (7) individual signal arms(?) was only situated about 200 yards beyond Holloway North Down's Down lines starting signals so would that have had anything to do with it?.

1970-1976 working at Holloway North Down in regards to 'acceptances' from Holloway South Down and Finsbury Park no.4 boxes

Any ECS trains usually formed of diesel hauled class 31s and the occasional light engines that were signalled to exit the high level or long siding heading along the Up fast line towards Holloway South Up this movement would have infringed the 440 yards 'clearing point' of all of Holloway North Down's Down fast, Down slow no.1 & Down slow no.2 lines semaphore home signals that were carried on a bracket signal post near to the box with the long diamond crossing from the long siding being situated just beyond Holloway North Down box itself. Also the 440 yards 'clearing point' of Holloway South Ups Up fast line semaphore home signal that was carried on a tall bracket signal post that had previously belonged to and worked by Holloway North Up box until 1970. So with any train or light engine that had been signalled to exit the 'long siding' and passing through the long diamond crossing towards Holloway South Up if in the meantime while that movement was taking place any trains that were offered on from either Holloway South Down on the Down lines (except the Down goods line between both boxes) and Finsbury Park no.4 on the Up fast line with a train signalled to exit the 'long siding' they would (or should) have been 'refused on the block' (the block instruments) in both Holloway North Down and Holloway South Up boxes until the signalled train of ECS or light engine from the long siding had passed through and clear of the long diamond crossing and the trailing points in the Up fast line leading from the long siding that were near to and worked by Holloway North Down box were back in the 'normal position' with the points lever 'back in the frame' and the 440 yards 'clearing points' on both the Down fast, Down slow no.1 & Down slow no.2 lines along with the 440 yards 'clearing point' on the Up fast line beyond Holloway South Up box Up fast line semaphore home signal were again 'clear' or 'free' then trains from both Holloway South Down on the Down fast, Down slow no.1 & Down slow no.2 lines and a train on the Up fast line from Finsbury Park no.4 could be accepted normally again in both Holloway North Down and Holloway South Up boxes under the old Absolute block regulation 3.4 meaning that the 440 yards 'clearing point' was 'clear' or 'free' beyond there respective home signals.

[Mickey]

As of March/April of 1974 Holloway North Down had 12 full-size working semaphore stop signals

The various disc signals, subsidiary arms, and miniature arm signals will be added shortly after I have checked my own Holloway North Down track plan

[strang steel]

Thanks Mickey. Your posts give fascinating detail into a subject which has now become almost non-existent on the modern railway system.

[Mickey]

John I have amended my last post (above yours) to show 12 full-size semaphore stop signal arms that were worked by the box because I had forgot to include a bracket post signal that carried x2 stop signals along with x2 individual 'stencil type route indicator' boxes and was sited on the right-hand side of the Down goods (no.1) line just beyond the box and was applicable to both the Down goods no.1 and Down goods no.2 lines anyway I shall have another look at my Holloway North Down track plan that is dated March/April 1974 and post the number of disc and miniature arm signals along with x2 'calling on' subsidiary arms that were worked by the box on the Down goods no.1 and Down goods no.2 lines heading towards Finsbury Park no.2 and were underneath the Holloway North Down Down goods no.1 and Down goods no.2 lines starting signals.

The number of semaphore signals that were worked by Holloway North Down between 1970-1976

1. Red semaphore stop signals 12 in total
2. Red disc signals 9 in total
3. Red semaphore miniature arms 9 in total
4. Semaphore 'Calling On' subsidaiary arms 2 in total

Even though my track plan is dated March/April 1974 the same layout at Holloway North Down existed dating back to around 1968 when the Down slow no.2 line was abolished and lifted between Holloway South Down and Holloway North Down boxes.