Alan Pegler - 90

[brsince78]

I wonder.... at least for the film taken at Kings Cross that this may be "The Michealangelo" railtour of 30th April 1967? Details are:- http://www.sixbellsjunction.co.uk/60s/670430an.html
If you freeze frame at 0:38 you can see that the headboard has a short first word and a long second word. Cross referring this to the book "Flying Scotsman" published by Ian Allan, there is a photograph of that tour at Kings Cross. The locomotive has two tenders but unfortuantely the photo is a rear 3/4 view and although the platform number *looks* correct, there are a lot more people milling around the locomotive than there are in the film.

Can anyone confirm the arrangements for that tour, or better still a photo of the front of the locomotive / headboard??

[leonr2z]

I am of that certain generation that remembers Alan Pegler as the saviour of the Flying Scotsman. I remember watching the news on BBC as she was craned aboard a freighter for the journey to the USA. He had his cirtics, but you can't argue that his heart was in the right place.

Only got to see 4472 in steam once when it made a special one or two day trip to Sheffield Midland about 1976 or 7. They had her in platform 8 and had to queue for an hour or so to get onto the footplate, but it was worth it. Absolutely magical!

On the subject of the smoke defectors, I agree, it is just WRONG!

[StoneRoad]

AP is a grand gent! He has made a significant contribution to Railway Preservation, both in his personal efforts, and as an inspiration to others!

I've met him several times (on and off the Festiniog Railway), and I still find him fascinating to chat with.

I wish him all the best!

[barry]

This post, sorry it's belated but it reminded me of a day in 1961 on the up Elizabethan, if my memory is correct Merlin was the loco.The firemen on this service was glad to see Alan Pegler travelling as it meant a easy day was in store. On this day we had a bad run between Eryholme J, Cowton and Danby Wiske. A poor pick up of water at Wiske Moor resulted in a unscheduled stop at York for water. One can only hazard a guess at the interaction between the crews when they changed over at Tollerton and the KX men found they had insufficient water to reach the troughs at Scrooby. Alan was up to the job and I am sure the fireman was glad to let him replenish a thirsty Merlin as fast as he could.
At this point it got worse, before we were able to get on the move again a rather smug driver at the controls of a Deltic on the up Flying Scotsman gave us arse holes as he sped off ahead of us. This train had left Edinburgh 15min behind us and was still running in steam times.
The Haymarket fireman when he arrived for his lunch looked very dejected and down in the mouth. The day however was not all doom and gloom and the 64b crew were delighted as we passed St Neots to see the Scotsman religated to the slow line to let us get back into our right path. I am sure the KG driver returned the communication the we were given at York.
Another memory I have of Alan was after dinner one evening on the up 16.00 Talisman in 1959 he made his way to the kitchen to congratulate the chef on the excellent salmon he had cooked for the evening meal and would he be kind enough to share the recipe. The chef replied if Alan gave him the secret of how he became a successful business man he would share the secret of the salmon. A great man who I had the pleasure of serving all them years ago.

[brsince78]

Barry

Thanks for your fascinating post

[Blink Bonny]

May I wish AP a very happy birthday and wish him many more.

Not only is he a pioneer of railway preservation and, lets face it, without him the A1 crowd would have faced a long uphill struggle to build 2 non-streamlined LNER pacifics, but he is a real gentleman as well. I've met the chap a few times around about another great passion of his, the Ffestiniog railway and he is always pleased to be recognised, even if he did once ask a chap not to remind him of his days as a "host" for VSOE, dressed as Henry VIII! He did with a chuckle and a mischievous twinkle in his eye...

Cracking little fillum, BR since 78! Very enjoyable.

[sirbrian]

The posting by Barry above reminds us of how concerned steam engine crews were in the old days regarding always having enough water. In my experience, engine crews liked to have at least half a tankful and would take water at every opportunity either over the troughs or at a station stop. The water level in the tender used to go down more quickly than might be expected. On one occasion, I was riding on a Black 5 with a train of oil tankers. We used three quarters of a tankful of water between London and Luton, for example.

I believe that cases of steam locomotives actually running out of water are extremely rare, due to the extreme vigilance of the engine crews in this respect. If the locomotive were to run out of water, the fire must be removed immediately, which is a difficult and dangerous operation. If all else fails, a fusible plug will melt and the remaining water in the boiler will extinguish the fire rapidly, thus avoiding a boiler explosion.

Sir Brian

[strang steel]

I managed to find some 16mm cine film of 4472 for sale on eBay a couple of years ago.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzTIApFV8ag

I borrowed a projector, repaired it, and then transferred it to my DV camcorder by filming the projection. It looks like a late 60's trip from Kings Cross. If any of the members of this forum can identify which one I would be most grateful. Unfortunately the film arrived with no accompanying information.

Its a very interesting cine film. Thanks for putting it on YouTube.

One thing is for sure - it was not all shot on the same day.

The opening sequence may well be the non-stop 1968 run, although I cant remember if the coaches were all blue/grey.

They are certainly not on the sequences shot from the carriage door windows; in fact the stock appears to be all maroon as far as I can see.

The clip at the end taken on a station platform shows no loco headboard and the stock seems to alternate between blue/grey and maroon.

The Kings Cross departure would appear to be quite early in 4472s double tender life, because only one of the Brush 2s has an all yellow front and there is a maroon Mk2 FK in an adjacent platform, although this latter does not really pin the date down.

The cameraman could not film the train leaving both from the platform angle and from the train, and anyway the adjacent platform is empty as the train departs the platform camera, but from the train there seems to be the empty stock of a sleeper service in there.

I know that I am moving towards extreme nerdiness, but I cant quite make out the loco on the front of the train behind 4472 (the one with the maroon Mk2 FK in it). I expected it to be a Deltic, but it looks more like an EE Type 4 or a Peak.

Sorry for rambling but these 1960s film snippets fascinate me.

I will now go and lie down.

[strang steel]

I believe that cases of steam locomotives actually running out of water are extremely rare, <snip>

Sir Brian

I believe that Britannia did just that this afternoon at Warminster.

Although media reports are notoriously inaccurate.

[StevieG]

Yes, thanks for the link brsince78.
That diesel query (BB) is a toughie. As you say, I would go for an EE4 or 'Peak', but which? Just a hunch, but if pushed, I'd say a peak.

I presume it's been realised that both clips of 4472 in KX taken from an elevated spot, show the train in platform 6 (now 5, these last 35 or so years) (Shots taken from top of the signal box steps).

The quick down direction clips after KX, near the end, are quirky - certainly not in geographical order anyway : New Southgate is followed by ???? (expansive area with boy looking back from next coach), then Potters Bar golf course and 'Hawkshead bridge' (just north of Potters Bar golf course), but then it's 'Ganwick' (between Hadley North and Potters Bar tunnels), and then (4472 headboard-less) Winchmore Hill !

[stockton39]

I managed to find some 16mm cine film of 4472 for sale on eBay a couple of years ago.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzTIApFV8ag

I borrowed a projector, repaired it, and then transferred it to my DV camcorder by filming the projection. It looks like a late 60's trip from Kings Cross. If any of the members of this forum can identify which one I would be most grateful. Unfortunately the film arrived with no accompanying information.

Reference your posting Tuesday 18th May 2010, regarding cine film of 4472 at Kings Cross. Alan Pegler 90.

The train is “The Norfolkman” railtour on 20th May 1967.

Alan Pegler / Gainsborough Model Railway Society “The Norfolkman” railtour.
Kings Cross, Hitchin, Cambridge, Norwich,
With a motor launch tour on the River Bure , through Wroxham, Salhouse & Malthouse Broads. (Fare 90/-).
First steam hauled passenger train into Norwich since the 1950’s

There is a very good photo at http://www.time-capsules.co.uk/picture/number2105.asp
The position of the smokebox handles are identical.
The railwayman on the far platform can be seen passing the lady in the long coat at the 1minute, 33 second point.

Also see: http://www.flickr.com/photos/16749798@N08/3795075198/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/16749798@N ... hotostream

I have always maintained that Poirot was an amateur !!!!