who is this then?

[brsince78]

Came the Mk3 vehicle on BT10 bogies, of course, and everything that went before it seemed inferior in ride quality. I read that Iarnrod Eireann have some for sale, any chance we could get them back here and in service?

Presumably they would need to be re-bogied for the change in gauge?

[hq1hitchin]

No trouble, there must be plenty of BT10 bogies left as scrappers here - for instance, all the sleeping cars that were prematurely withdrawn - are any one them still squirreled away on MoD sites?

[sirbrian]

I agree with hq1hitchin regarding the Mk.1 carriages that were fitted with Commonwealth bogies. They did ride very well, in fact equal to the best that BR ever had. There were two problems with the Commonwealth bogies. Firstly, they were heavy, being steel castings. Secondly, they cost three times more than the other bogies. One feature was that they required less maintenance than any other bogie type, and this was a major advantage at the time.

The expensive Commonwealth bogies were only used by BR in desperation because of a pressing need to have better riding Mk.1 carriages than the Mk.1's that were fitted with GWR type bogies. This bogie had a reputation for violent hunting at speed. The Commonwealth bogies were essentially a stop-gap measure until a good-riding and lighter fabricated bogie could be developed within BR.

I remember well walking the length of a train comprised of Mk.3 First's, a Mk.1 Buffet Car on Commonwealth bogies, and Mk.2 Second's. The ride quality on each of these three vehicle types was equally good.

As for the Mk.3's in Ireland, my experience of them is that they ride even better in Ireland than in the UK. The 6.5" wider track gauge results in a slightly wider spacing of the primary and secondary suspension systems of the bogies, which can be expected to produce a somewhat improved ride quality, as is borne out in practice.

Sir Brian

[stembok]

Interesting post sirbrian. In 1948 it was generally agreed that the LNER Gresley pattern bogies gave the best ride amongst the pre-nationalisation companies,but the decision on the Mark 1s went against them on grounds of cost and I believe the fact that they were less easy to maintain. As speeds increased from the late 1950s, and with the introduction of long welded rail, problems began to emerge with the BR1 standard bogie. I vividly remember a very wearing 30 minutes between Darlington and York with the Mark 1 I was travelling in 'hunting' violently. This led to the excellent, but heavy, Commonwealth design, which meant Mk 1 coaches of 36-37 tons. The ride situation became so serious that some of the EMU stock of the time which was particularly prone to poor riding due to the effects of the traction motors reverted to the Gresley pattern bogies in some new designs of the time, such as the Class 303 on the Glasgow suburban services.

[hq1hitchin]

Quite so, stembok - the BR standard bogie could give an appalling ride as could the heavyweight version which was originally used on sleepers and catering vehices. Remember the BR RUs riding round on Gresley bogies? It must have been a disappointment to BR to have to revert to such an old design. The Class 304 EMUs on the LMR also had Gresley bogies, which had a curious, although not uncomfortable, swaying motion to them at any kind of speed.

[Bullhead]

The Class 304 EMUs on the LMR also had Gresley bogies, which had a curious, although not uncomfortable, swaying motion to them at any kind of speed.

As did Scotland's 303 "Blue Train" units, and the later 311s. You can see them quite well in the second picture and hardly at all in the first, but I included the 1960s one as (a) it's a nice picture and (b) I have spent more hours than I care to remember cranking points at the place where it was taken, thanks to the effect of sea water on track circuits (fortunately, train detection is now provided by axle-counters).