Kings Cross Box to now move to York

[DaveGN]

Looks like KX Box is now going to be moved to York, rather than Three Bridges in the new Operations Strategy.
The York Rail Operations Centre will open in 2014 and the date for phase 1 transfer of KX is now 2018 for the transfer of the sections KX to Welwyn (Panels 1 to 4).

I wonder what the men of the LNER would have said if you had told them that KX will be signalled form York!

The end of another signalling era approaches...

[Mickey]

Deleted

[Bryan]

I used to think it was a bit of a stretch when York took over signalling upto Hellifield when the Aire Valley was wired up.

[StevieG]

"Looks like KX Box is now going to be moved to York, rather than Three Bridges in the new Operations Strategy.
The York Rail Operations Centre will open in 2014 and the date for phase 1 transfer of KX is now 2018 for the transfer of the sections KX to Welwyn (Panels 1 to 4). .... "

Yes indeed, thanks Dave : That sounds a little more sensible from a traffic co-ordination point of view.
And it's hard to believe that the old York (OCS-type) power box was replaced by the original (ECML) part of York IECC 23 years ago!

" .... I wonder what the men of the LNER would have said if you had told them that KX will be signalled from York! .... "

... Probably much the same as some BR(E) people in/around Biggleswade/Sandy & Royston would've said around 1960 if told their locality would become controlled from King's Cross or Peterborough, - or that LT would imminently have an area whose signals and train locations/movements were displayed/controlled involving a TV screen,
- or some LNER men working at Thirsk around 1930 if informed that they were to get a new signal box in three years' time - that would have no levers!;
- or even GN men around Christmas 1898 if told that two other railway companies would each have one of the first two UK signal boxes that operated their equipment only by electrical or pneumatic means within the next twelve months!!

Tempus (/progress) fugit ....

" Blimey i recall that i was the only railway enthusiast hanging about on the end of the old no.10 platform at 'the Cross' in the dark early hours of a Sunday morning back in 1971 when they were de-commissioning the old 1930s s/box and commissioning the present power box now that things on the way out!!. .... "

Nearly 38 years for a 'modern' box that's worked fairly hard is quite a decent lifespan Micky, probably longer than it was designed for, though it doesn't compare well with the usual longevity of 'mechanical' boxes of course. And now it sounds like its going to make 42 (Knebworth-Biggleswade/Royston even longer?....

" .... I nearly could have gone in that place as a telegraph lad around 1975 if i had took up the telegraph lads job at Finsbury Park no.6 in March 1974 after leaving WGC?. .... "

A pity that by 1971, I think the long-distance KC-FO (KX-Peterborough single-needle telegraph circuit had gone over to a direct 'phone line (probably with, or ready for, closure of the old 1932 box), and the rest of the telegraph system here 'darn sarf' gradually fell into disuse therefter, and by 1974 I'm not sure any would have been left at Finsbury Park.

[Danby Wiske]

DaveGN wrote:
" .... I wonder what the men of the LNER would have said if you had told them that KX will be signalled from York! .... "

Tempus (/progress) fugit ....

And I wouldn't be surprised if in a few years' time the whole lot is run from a call centre in Calcutta...

[StevieG]

And I wouldn't be surprised if in a few years' time the whole lot is run from a call centre in Calcutta...

... Well, goodness gracious me !

[manna]

G'Day Gents

I like Micky, can remember the 'New' power box coming into operation, did'nt look right, looking up at the box and seeing it dark and empty.

Can you imagine a fire in the new box.

manna

[StevieG]

G'Day Gents

I like Micky, can remember the 'New' power box coming into operation, did'nt look right, looking up at the box and seeing it dark and empty.

Can you imagine a fire in the new box.

manna

Me too. What an ugly 'box' (literally) to put up at York Road platform, I thought. [It looks quite different these last few years since a metallic extension (with curves) of the 1st and 2nd floors was added, above the part of the ground floor relay room that projected towards the platform edge, in order to (amongst other things?) accommodate the WAGN/FCC TOC train and crew controllers at the back of the ops. room.]

A fire in (any large) control centre? Presumably Nosmo King would be virtually everywhere inside these days, with super-dooper fire and smoke detection systems (cue increased risk of brief evacuations [of the people ] thanks to alarms set off by burnt toast or system faults).

[Mickey]

Deleted

[sandwhich]

Its amazing how things change, during the 60s when resignalling the east coast was being finalised it was envisaged that their would be four signal power boxes at K X, Potters Bar, Hitchin & Peterborough that of course worked out as KX & Peterborough and now all going to York, but i am a bit puzzled about Drayton Park-Moorgate as to whether that will come under York Control Centre or be operated by LU or even London Overground as that route interchanges with both.

[Mickey]

Deleted

[StevieG]

Its amazing how things change, during the 60s when resignalling the east coast was being finalised it was envisaged that their would be four signal power boxes at K X, Potters Bar, Hitchin & Peterborough that of course worked out as KX & Peterborough and now all going to York, but i am a bit puzzled about Drayton Park-Moorgate as to whether that will come under York Control Centre or be operated by LU or even London Overground as that route interchanges with both.

Funny you should say that sandwhich about the 4 PSBs because someone told me about 10 years ago or more that management at some point in time (i presume on the Kings Cross area?) had thought or voiced that it mite have been a mistake by putting everything into one PSB like Kings Cross and it may have been better to have kept some more smaller s/boxes open with NX panels in them although there was no actual names mentioned?.

Possibly something like the following s/boxes-

1.Kings Cross
2.Wood Green
3.New Barnet
4.Welwyn Garden City
5.Cambridge Junction (Hitchin)
7.Hertford north (on the Hertford branch)

Sounds like these might have been part of 1950s ideas for electrification, as discussed recently in another thread somewhere in these forums, including a post or two by Andy W. Perhaps this was part of the early BR plans to modernise the east and west coast routes, before it was decided to concentrate on the west coast, that led to the Euston-Wolves/Liverpool/Manchester electrics and al the new signalling on those lines.

As to the Northern City Line (Drayton-Moorgate), sandwhich, although this line is underground in tube tunnels from the south end of Drayton Park and was London Transport's up to 1975 (administered as part of the Northern line : And before that it was run by the Met.R., and originally was the nominally independent GN&CR), the new connections of 1975/6 linked it (finally) to the BR national network, allowing the line's services (formed of the then new Class 313 trains) to run through to/from Welwyn Garden City, Gordon Hill, Hertford North, and Stevenage/Letchworth via HN as they have continued to do ever since (currently run by First Capital Connect).

So, although the line does have interchanges with LU and Overground (at three of it four tunnel stations), as the line has, since 1976, sensibly been operationally part of the King's Cross area lines, control ought sensibly to go to York (or wherever) along with the main line, in my view.

Of course whether any ongoing 'Ken L.'/'Boris. J'/GLA aim to have all London suburban services as part of 'Overground' comes to fruition in future years, .... who knows?
But even large parts of Overground are not self-contained, sharing NR lines with other traffic along a lot of their 'network', and the infrastructure of those stretches is maintained by Network Rail, and signalled from their boxes/centres, e.g. Richmond, Acton Wells, Wembley Mainline, Upminster, London Bridge and 'Victoria'(Clapham Jn.): The control centre that really is part of Overground (although operated by NR) is that for the East London line at the New Cross Gate depot complex, controlling that service from Highbury & Islington to New Cross, and (exclusive) New X G station.

[sandwhich]

Good point Stevie G about Drayton Park - Moorgate, it probably will come under York, but it will seem strange for drivers down in those tunnels deep under London talking to a signaller at York 188 miles away. But this is the way of things.
Mickey listed a number of signal boxes that were considered to become smaller power boxes, If memory serves me right those boxes did become tempory panels during the resignalling in the 1970s before transfer to KX and were then moved to nearby secure locations to be used in emergencies and have been on occasions.

[StevieG]

" .... Mickey listed a number of signal boxes that were considered to become smaller power boxes, If memory serves me right those boxes did become tempory panels during the resignalling in the 1970s before transfer to KX and were then moved to nearby secure locations to be used in emergencies and have been on occasions. "

You're right : Along with others at Holloway, Finsbury Park, Potters Bar, Hatfield, Langley, Biggleswade, Gordon Hill, Letchworth, and Royston.

[Solario]

it will seem strange for drivers down in those tunnels deep under London talking to a signaller at York 188 miles away.

Sandwhich, when you think about it, drones flying over Afghanistan & Pakistan are being controlled by someone sitting at a desk many thousands of miles away in the USA (& maybe UK), it is not so strange, these days, but I see your point, nevertheless.