Cement trains through Grantham

[workev]

There has been mention on several threads about the Cement trains that utilised Class 33s in the early 1960s. I have recently found several images in books and on eBay that show 9Fs hauling 22T Blue Circle presflos in 1960.

Does anybody know when this flow actually started, and which sheds would provide the locos.

I have only ever seen shots of the train going south, so I presume thath the Down working was overnight.

Ian

[harvester]

Seen the down on many occasions at Doncaster from memory mid afternoon. Nearly always hauled by a pair of diesels. On the rare times steam was seen on it it always caused great delight as it heralded an other miserable diesel failure!

[strang steel]

Yes, I thought that the up and down services were timed to allow the crews to change over at York North Yard, although that might just be my unreliable memory.

[61070]

Ian - I remembered the following and have just found it in my notes:

The duties of the '9F' locomotives on these heavy trains were remembered by Dave Somers in a letter published in Steam World (Issue 271, January 2010, p16). Dave's father, Jack Somers, was Shedmaster at New England (Peterborough) motive power depot (MPD) in the late 1950s. Dave recalled an occasion when his father was talking of locomotives in his retirement. '…he mentioned what a versatile locomotive the BR '9F' was. There was only one job, he said, that had winded the '9Fs' on the long ECML gradients – a bulk cement train that I think was brought to Ferme Park by a pair of Southern Region Type 3 diesels … and then worked down the ECML by a Peterborough steam locomotive until sufficient diesel drivers were available. He usually tried to ensure that one of New England's 'A2' allocation was allotted to the task. The 'A2' with its 50 sq. ft. grate, double Kylchap exhaust and 10 in. piston valves was capable of producing the power necessary to time the train.'

I probably still have the copy of Steam World somewhere.

[S.A.C. Martin]

According to Peter Townend in East Coast Pacifics at Work, the specific A2 sub class in question that did that work was an A2/3.

The A2/3s deserve to be remembered, however, for one achievement towards the end of their life.

A block cement train was booked to run from Cliffe to Uddingston and the timing from Peterborough to Grantham including the climb to Stoke was particularly sharp for the weight of train hauled.

Class 9Fs were booked for the working and could not keep time but an A2/3 was sent out one day with Peterborough Inspector Bill Buxton, who reported back that it was the only locomotive to master the job.

[Andy W]

There was another New England 9F cement diagram that started just before the Cliffe trains, I think from summer 1960.

It ran from West Thurrock to Cambuslang with the return going as far as Palace Gates, from where the wagons would be tripped back to West Thurrock. The 9F picked up the load at West Thurrock Jct and ran as far as York, where it would wait for the return working back to Palace Gates. It was a block load of presflos and there was a restriction on how many it could haul.

I have seen details in a book recently, possibly the RCTS one on the 9Fs, but I am posting remote at the moment so cannot be sure.

[strang steel]

For those interested, the other two threads on cement trains are:-

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=2322

and

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=7035

[60129 GUY MANNERING]

The other Cement Traffic in the Grantham area was the supply of cement by rail to Great Ponton during the construction of the Grantham- by- pass /A1 works.If my memory serves me correct that super old Bongo 61070 mentioned this in his super thread on Grantham.
Regards.

[workev]

Thanks for the many replies, it seems that 1960 was the start date, possibly for both workings.

Spent a great day at Grantham Library last week, lots of archive material and plenty of help from the staff!

Ian

[Andy W]

The Cliffe trains started in 1961 when the line into the cement works was completed. By 1970 the workings there had been exhausted, as has been mentioned in one of the previous threads.

[workev]

The other Cement Traffic in the Grantham area was the supply of cement by rail to Great Ponton during the construction of the Grantham- by- pass /A1 works.If my memory serves me correct that super old Bongo 61070 mentioned this in his super thread on Grantham.
Regards.

When was this, as the previous post states the Cliffe workings started in 1961?

Ian

[60129 GUY MANNERING]

The other Cement Traffic in the Grantham area was the supply of cement by rail to Great Ponton during the construction of the Grantham- by- pass /A1 works.If my memory serves me correct that super old Bongo 61070 mentioned this in his super thread on Grantham.
Regards.

When was this, as the previous post states the Cliffe workings started in 1961?

Ian

Ian,
from memory the By-pass opened in 1963, but I will check and if I am wrong I will post again.Therefore I would say !961 through to 1963.I am sure John's thread mentioned this service and had a photograph with an A1 used on the service. (possibly 60137 Redgauntlet)
As I understood it this had no connection with the other service.He might help me out because he is the master of organisation and can probably lay his hands on the information quicker than I can type this.
Regards,Derek.

[60129 GUY MANNERING]

I am sure John won't mind me copying this from his Thread.

Grantham Journal August 4th 1961
“Concrete” offer by British Railways solves a by-pass problem
Frequently criticised, British Railways are this week due some praise for their prompt “concrete” offer in helping to solve a cement firm’s problem, thereby playing a part in the construction of the six-miles-long Grantham by-pass.
The firm – the Cement Marketing Co., Ltd. – had undertaken to transport 20,000 tons of bulk cement from the Rochester area of Kent to the site.
The big problem was – could a suitable railhead be found in the Grantham area for off-loading the cement?
As lorries had to be loaded by gravity there had to be an appreciable drop between rail level and the road. This meant that the choice of railhead sites in the area was very limited.
British Railways were approached by the firm, and the King’s Cross traffic area quickly got down to solving the problem. It was finally agreed with representatives of the firm that Great Ponton was the nearest station capable of providing the necessary facilities.
By slewing one existing siding and re-grading another a discharge point was achieved with a drop of some 12 feet to the road. Next a temporary prefabricated cover was placed over this point and the lorry loading point.
Since the discharge arrangements require compressed air the firm installed a diesel compressor on the site.
An airtight joint between the wagon bottom outlet and the flow pipe leading to the lorry had to be effected. This was achieved by an ingenious arrangement using a "concertina" joint – which incorporated a series of large inner tubes being inflated inside the pipe.
A manually operated slide valve opens the door and allows the cement – assisted by air pressure – to discharge. The operator is able to regulate the flow by means of an iris-type shutter device.…
It is expected that some 600 tons of cement will be handled each week.

Regards,Derek.

[61070]

I’m pleased to hear of your successful visit to Grantham library, Ian. I've been there a few times myself and my experience too was that the staff are very obliging.

Most of my visits to the library were to read The Grantham Journal on microfilm. The railway was such a vital part of the town's life, at least until the 1960s, that there was frequent coverage of all kinds of news - from positive stories about new traffic, modernisation of facilities, railway staff retirements and social occasions to, inevitably, closure of ‘the loco’ and other departments as first the Modernisation Plan and then Reshaping (i.e. Beeching) began to bite. I didn't search much wider than the newspaper archive, so I'd be quite interested to hear what other source material you may have seen while you were there.

The story about the temporary cement terminal established at Great Ponton during the construction of the Grantham bypass was one of those I picked up from the Journal, and I’m grateful to Derek for tracking it down and copying it across. I’ve delved into my files this evening (by the way I’m blushing at the ‘master of organisation’ title – Mrs 10-70 might take issue!) and I’ve been amused to find that facts about the capacity of the terminal, provided quite innocently by BR, enabled local journalists to get on the scent of a ‘cover-up’ about delays to the bypass.

The bypass was eagerly anticipated in a town that had become very congested with through traffic on the Great North Road, so there were regular updates on progress in the Journal. Construction began in March 1960 with a scheduled completion date of 31st December 1961. In March 1961 the contractor announced that it might even be ready by October, two months early. Soon after that, however, rumours of delay began to circulate, but officials and councillors declined to comment to Journal reporters – who, therefore, quickly deduced that ‘summat was up’.

Cement deliveries at Great Ponton started in July 1961 (The Grantham Journal 23/3/1962, page 6) - 20,000 tons at a rate of 600 tons each week - because the six-mile-long dual carriageways were to be surfaced with concrete. Most was to be experimentally ‘laid in longer bays than normal road surfaces of this type’ under the supervision of the Road Research Laboratory of the Ministry of Science.

Now the railway PR people, when blowing their trumpet (in August 1961) about BR’s flexibility in providing for the new traffic at Great Ponton, inadvertently let the cat out of the bag about the delays that the contractors and council officials were trying to conceal. A journalist did a simple sum from the railway’s statistics and worked out that the delivery of 20,000 tons at 600 tons per week which had begun in July 1961 would take until February 1962 to complete, demonstrating that the project must be running many months late. A reporter descended on the hapless resident County Council engineer at the site who said he was “quite shocked” at this revelation. The Journal, setting their discovery against the official 'no comment' responses, reported laconically that a “cement problem” had arisen.

This is a bit of a digression from your original question, Ian, but I was fascinated by the ‘ripple effect’ of the seemingly matter-of-fact 'good news' story about a new traffic flow facilitated by the railway.

…and, by the way, the official opening of the bypass finally took place on 10th October 1962.

[workev]

I’m pleased to hear of your successful visit to Grantham library, Ian. I've been there a few times myself and my experience too was that the staff are very obliging.

Most of my visits to the library were to read The Grantham Journal on microfilm. The railway was such a vital part of the town's life, at least until the 1960s, that there was frequent coverage of all kinds of news - from positive stories about new traffic, modernisation of facilities, railway staff retirements and social occasions to, inevitably, closure of ‘the loco’ and other departments as first the Modernisation Plan and then Reshaping (i.e. Beeching) began to bite. I didn't search much wider than the newspaper archive, so I'd be quite interested to hear what other source material you may have seen while you were there.

John,

There were some collections of letters concerning an exhibition in the Museum or Library in 1963, although this was too late for me it was certainly interesting to see how much was lent by BR(E) for the exhibition. There were many orginal GN documents concerning land, etc. which I was stunned to find, plus other things. I was hoping to find things from the Grantham Railway Society there, but nothing I could find.

I am hoping to get some photographs for my own research including an aerial shot in 1957 showing Ruston's and the yard. I think it will take more visits and I suspect a visit to Lincoln to the archives there, to find more snippets.

I am going to try and summarise what I have found in some posts soon!

Ian