The LNER Encyclopedia

Hi,

I am doing some research on 'The Elizabethan' at the start of her life. I have quite a bit of information in the forms of photographs, video footage and written information. I have come to a halt on the stock used; I know that the stock was Thompson, all steel pressure ventilated stock, but, was this stock exactly the same as the usual Thompson stock just with roof vents omited? Or where there other external features missed off? Also did the catering vehicles i.e the Restaurant First, Restaurant Third and Buffet car have vents on or were these also pressure ventilated?

Thanks for any information.

Regards

Karl

Hi,

The most noticeable difference was that on the Elizabethan stock, as with other Thompson stock used in named trains in the late 40's/early 50's, there were extended fairings over the solebars, which gave a more streamlined and very distinctive look. The difference shows up well in photos. Hope that helps.

Regards
Gilbert

Hi All,

I have a few questions that I hope you can answer regarding Thompson stock and the 'Elizabethan' train service.

1) Does anyone have the formation of the 'Elizabethan' when it first started running? I have the formation for 1956 i.e post blood and custard livery but not for the blood and custard era, with buffet car. So far I have BCK, TK, TK, RF, RTO. I know that there was a FK with ladies room and a buffet car in the formation somewhere and a BG at the rear but apart from that I haven’t a clue.

2) The stock used on the 'Elizabethan' service, I know it was different to standard Thompson stock, but was this the general idea;



3) The buffet car; was it classed as a buffet lounge if it had a separate side corridor and seating area as oppose to a central isle with seats either side, or just an ordinary buffet car? If it was classed as a buffet car, what changed it into a buffet lounge?

Thanks for any help.

Regards

Karl

Karl,

Although there are no photographs "LNER Carriages" by Michael Harris will give you all the information you require bar the look of the coaches. It includes both Up and Down formations with which coaches (i.e. specific numbers) were used for the two trains at the trains June 1953 introduction (i.e. when it replaced the Capitals Limited) as well as information about the diagram nos. of the coaches and a few details about the buffet lounge. As far as the profile of the coaches is concerned, they had the standard Thompson profile except that the body sides (as mentioned previously) were continued over the full depth of the solebars with the extended fairings curving in towards the solebars in a slightly more pronounced fashion than the tumblehome of the coach side proper. There were cutouts in this fairing for the footboards. Thus you've got the general idea in your sketch as far as I can see. although the curve of the sides should be more pronounced.

Thanks '9E' Although I do not own a copy of that book (Have been looking around, but it seems as rare as hen's teeth) I will ask around and see if anyone can loan me a copy from some of clubs or railways that I am members of.

Regards

Karl

Keep an eye on www.abebooks.com. There are several (expensive) copies of LNER Carriages on there at the moment, but the other week there was a copy on offer at 25 pounds which in the current market isn't bad.

I've got a copy if you haven't found one by next Monday.

Hi All,

Been a while since I’ve been on. Busy working .

I have a quick question regarding 'The Elizabethan'. Does anyone have any pictures of the first two coaches of the North bound train, the Aberdeen portion?

What it is, I am looking in particular at the roof destination boards. It appears that the main train has alternating Boards with 'Kings Cross - Edinburgh' & 'The Elizabethan' written on. I have drawn a blank on the first two coaches though, which I presume is similar to the rest of the train with one declaring 'The Elizabethan' and the other 'Kings Cross - Aberdeen', but I have no proof. I know it is asking a lot but has anyone got any ideas, or even better any photographs?

Regards

Karl

3) The buffet car; was it classed as a buffet lounge if it had a separate side corridor and seating area as oppose to a central isle with seats either side, or just an ordinary buffet car? If it was classed as a buffet car, what changed it into a buffet lounge?

Thanks for any help.

Regards

Karl[/quote]
The best way to see the buffet lounge car is to wath the BTF film the Elizabethan as it features this coach. Also the Llangollen has one of the Buffet Lounge cars.
http://www.llangollen-railway.org.uk/lnerveh.html

The buffet lounge was in its original configuration when used in the Elizabethan. I think it disappeared from the train after 1957. It is not listed in the 1958 carriage workings. The interior shots in the BTF film indicate there was a corridor alongside the lounge area. This disappeared when the vehicles were rebuilt.

Note also that after the Aberdeen portion of The Capitals Limited as it then was came down to only BCK, TK, the uniformity of the set was broken as I don't think there were any pressure-ventilated Thompson BCK. Later still, the Aberdeen section became Mark I stock and the carriage workings were such that those vehicles changed on a daily basis, even though the main Edinburgh section of both Elizabethan sets remained intact Monday-Friday. The unnamed Saturday train had a different, longer, formation, though still using most of the Elizabethan vehicles.

Does anyone know whether Thompson 48-seat Third Opens 1985-1987 built to order 1221 in the 1949 building programme for the 'Junior Scotsman' were pressure-ventilated?

The Harris LNER Coaches book mentions they were used as dining cars in the 'Junior Scotsman' sets but does not state they were pressure-ventilated (unlike other 'Junior Scotsman' stock listed). If not PV, did they still have the extended sides covering the solebars to match other vehicles?

Of the other 48-seat Third Opens to Diag 350, 1982-4 were PV and 1988-98 were not.

The same question also applies to First Opens 1972-4 built 1949 to order 1218, also for the 'Junior Scotsman' sets.

For the First Opens, Harris lists 1956-8 as PV for 'Flying Scotsman' and 1959-71 as not, except that 1960 is specifically noted as PV.