The LNER Encyclopedia

Picture the scene if you will: such was his stature that SNG continued in office for at least another 15 years, and his 4-8-2 designs and others were realised. There was no nationalisation and with amazing foresight, the little rural lines were kept open. The dwindling oil reserves were anticipated and so the LNER stuck with steam and electric traction!!

After the "wow-effect" of the pre-war Silver Jubilee and Coronation etc, how might the LNER have marked subsequent celebrations including:

1953 Coronation of HM Queen Elizabeth II
1966 World Cup
1969 Moon Landing
1977 Silver Jubilee
1994 Opening of Channel Tunnel
2002 Golden Jubilee
2012 Diamond Jubilee

It seems highly likely to me that the LNER would have marked these occasions with special trains in new eye-catching liveries!

Ay up!

Meself I reckon the LNER would have started experimenting with diesel locos as well as electrics post war so we may well have seen single-ended multiple unit streamlined diesel locos on an "Elizabethan" service with streamlined stock. Possibly the HST concept? Livery? Who knows?

I doubt that, after dabbling with DMUs a la Flying Hamburger they'd have used them for long distance trains but for local trains, probably,

LNER beyond the millenium , nice 'eco' friendly loco design , streamlined , incoporating a tread mill coupled to a giant flywheel giro motor , o' the fuel - prisoners running on the treadmill , and no shortage of energy


mr B

I reckon that if Gresley was in office for another 15 years (and alive too!) that everything would have been a development of the A4's and V2's

It is, I think, a matter of record that Gresley had already decided to retire at age 65 (he was already quite unwell before his death), so any speculation about continuation of the A4s and V2s is pure fantasy.

The railway world after WWII was dominated by economic austerity and the struggle to rebuild/repair infrastructure that had in many instances been neglected since the Depression of the early 1930s. Only the Southern had the financial capacity to move forward - and from what I have read had plans to complelely modernise by the early 1960s. Even BR struggled to get back to pre-war timings before the mid-1950s.

What we do know about the LNER's plans were definite intentions to introduce main line diesels on the ECML and finish the Manchester - Sheffield electrification. The former would presumably have led to speeding up of ECML services while the latter was mainly for freight.

I doubt whether services such as the Coronation and West Riding Limited would have been reintroduced in their pre-war formats (if at all) because of market conditions. I also doubt that mainline high speed DMUs would have been the go if the diesel initiative had worked out. After all, a pair of 1600 bhp diesels (a la 10000/10001) can pull 10+ coaches but DMUs can offer only limited accommodation.

The first event post-war worthy of commemoration would have been the Festival of Britain in 1951, for which BR built several sets of coaching stock. Perhaps the LNER would have introduced a special train would have been introduced for the life of the Festival.

What interests me is whether the LNER would have thought of introducing light pacifics (or diesels) on the GEML - something that I think we should allow BR 100% credit for (although at the instigation of ex-LNER staff).

Extend the Manchester-Sheffield electrification down the GC to
...Paris?

61070 wrote:Extend the Manchester-Sheffield electrification down the GC to
...Paris?

I think an extension to Retford was on the cards, Gay Paree may have been a little ambitious but they could have extended to Harwich and had a relative of Tommy pick up the train on the other side.

52D wrote:Gay Paree may have been a little ambitious

Yes, ridiculous idea. To do that in pre-Grouping days you'd have needed to be Chairman of the MSLR and the Met, then join them up, become Chairman of the South Eastern, get on to the Board of the Chemin de Fer du Nord, and then start digging the Channel Tunnel.

Pure fantasy, of course ...

Kudu

52D wrote:I think an extension to Retford was on the cards, ...

I remember reading/being told that when the dive-under was constructed they allowed sufficient clearance for the overheads in the future.
Although that was BR not the LNER.

Andy

kudu wrote:

52D wrote:Gay Paree may have been a little ambitious

Yes, ridiculous idea. To do that in pre-Grouping days you'd have needed to be Chairman of the MSLR and the Met, then join them up, become Chairman of the South Eastern, get on to the Board of the Chemin de Fer du Nord, and then start digging the Channel Tunnel.

Pure fantasy, of course ...

Kudu

Imagine condensing A4s through to Paris!

61070 wrote:Gay Paree may have been a little ambitious

Well they dug a mile long tunnel from each side in 1881, so maybe not so far fetched. Tunnel abandoned due to political pressure in 1882.

Peter

Pyewipe Junction wrote:any speculation about continuation of the A4s and V2s is pure fantasy

What I actually meant was not a continuation of the A4's and V2's, but Gresley studying them and using various pieces of data to produce a line of (possibly standard) locos based upon the features of the A4's and V2's.

I am still of the opinion that Electrification both 1500Vdc overhead and 650Vdc third railwould be the way forward with Manchester London being complete by about 1957-59 and London - Edinburgh/Glasgow by 1968-70. A few Classes of diesel would also be brought in to cover lines not electrified and Steam being phased out by about 1973.
The Edinburgh sub would be electrified the same as Tyneside and we may even have had a third rail scheme extension over the Blyth and Tyne and Newcastle airport (Ponteland) pre empting T&W Metro.
I like playing Sir Nigel any other ideas?

Coming back to my original post(!), how would the LNER have celebrated national events like the 1953 coronation?

Ay up!

Considering improvements in diesel technology since the 1930s, I wonder if a HST type train would have been contemplated? Certainly, to be in the forefront of Progress, diesels were "sexy" in the 1950s.

OK, not to an enthusiast but to the railways?

Possibly electrification of the ECML and a 1500v DC APT type thingy?