The LNER Encyclopedia

On another site we have been discussing foreign engines working over LNER lines in the North East, in particular i remember an incident in 1966/67 when Clun Castle fouled the platform at Newcastle Central. Other incidents were discussed and we have several pics of City of Truro in and around the Berwick area. I thought these two isolated incidents were the only appearance of copper capped beasties in the NE but have since come across one definite sighting in 1920 when GWR 2-8-0 No.2846 was handed over to the NBR at Berwick in Jan 1920 for comparitive trials at Glenfarg i guess this loco must have worked up the GCR to York via Sheffield thence up the ECML to Berwick. The other possible sighting could be pannier tanks working up to Scotland to work at Dornoch.
Incidentally the 2-8-0 was at Glenfarg and was involved in trials as the NBR were considering building something along the lines of a Q6/7 for the fife coal traffic. After the grouping it appears that RODs filled the void.
Is there any good references to the Glenfarg trials?

The NBR exchanges are discussed briefly on pages 34 and 35 of Cecil J Allen's 'Locomotive Exchanges 1870 - 1948'. BTW, Allen cites them has taking place during 1921, not 1920.

There were two rounds of exchanges. In January 1921, GWR 28xx number 2804 was tried out against a NBR 0-6-0 (class not stated). Later in 1921, Q7 number 903 was tried out.

According to Allen, the 28xx stalled on the Glenfarg Bank (1 in 74 for 6 1/2 miles) with a 686-ton load in foul weather when its sandpipes clogged. The Q7, however, appears to have breezed through everything, making better time on each trial, ending up with a 755-ton train.

Allen doesn't say how the 28xx got to Scotland, but the GC/NE/NB route seems the obvious way.

In relatively recent times, 1980s, I think, I remember seeing City of Truro heading past Howsham on its way to Scarborough.

There would have been quite a number of GWR Panniers working from the North East to GWR territory because some were built by Robert Stephensons in the late 40's or early 50's, not sure which works or the number involved.

Dear Sirs, re GWR (spit) locos and stock in the North East we moved some in 1975 for the rail 150 Cavalcade. I worked (as a loco inspector) Cookham Manor and Raveningham Hall York to Shildon via the Amiralty SPDC sidings Urlay Nook where we stored stock out of the way, but there was a pannier tank as well plus with the Manor some coaching stock.
In steam days there was a GWR pannier on colliery working in sidings on the right hand side going towards Pelaw just before what became the Tyne Freightliner Terminal . That would be late 50s early 60s.
Our working instructions with GW locos was 5mph when passing along side station platform walls.-they didn't like the North Eastern style of chalking white lines along the sides of their cylinder casings!
Jim Brodie.

James Brodie wrote:...Our working instructions with GW locos was 5mph when passing along side station platform walls.-they didn't like the North Eastern style of chalking white lines along the sides of their cylinder casings!

Which may have arisen from the incident, in latter GC days of the early 60's, when Goodwood? Grange (which should have been changed at Leicester or Nottingham!), amazingly worked through to South Yorkshire, on a scheduled service, and sustained cylinder damage in a platform edge collision at Penistone!
Cheers
Robt P.

The NBR loco in the January 1921 trial was J37 9046 (BR64615) which, according to the RCTS part 5, failed to take a 477ton coal train up Glenfarg bank.

Pyewipe Junction wrote:The NBR exchanges are discussed briefly on pages 34 and 35 of Cecil J Allen's 'Locomotive Exchanges 1870 - 1948'. BTW, Allen cites them has taking place during 1921, not 1920.

There were two rounds of exchanges. In January 1921, GWR 28xx number 2804 was tried out against a NBR 0-6-0 (class not stated). Later in 1921, Q7 number 903 was tried out.

According to Allen, the 28xx stalled on the Glenfarg Bank (1 in 74 for 6 1/2 miles) with a 686-ton load in foul weather when its sandpipes clogged. The Q7, however, appears to have breezed through everything, making better time on each trial, ending up with a 755-ton train.

Allen doesn't say how the 28xx got to Scotland, but the GC/NE/NB route seems the obvious way.

The GWR thing was impounded at Hillhouses? shed near Huddersfield it was a Hall ISTR and the reason for it being on the train was that it had a four figure number which was the same as the diesel rostered for the trip and taken in error by the crew(or is this another urban myth).

52D wrote:The GWR thing was impounded at Hillhouses? shed near Huddersfield it was a Hall ISTR and the reason for it being on the train was that it had a four figure number which was the same as the diesel rostered for the trip and taken in error by the crew(or is this another urban myth).

"...Nottingham Victoria was the farthest north that Great Western locomotives ventured down the Great Central, except on rare occasions. One of these occasions took place on 15 August 1964 when engine No. 6858 Woolston Grange working the Poole to Bradford/Leeds train, and which normally would have come off at Leicester or Nottingham, managed due to an oversight by control, to reach Huddersfield. However, en route, it had hit the platform edge at Berry Brow station between Penistone and Huddersfield. The loco was quickly removed to Huddersfield shed where it languished well inside until it was towed to Crewe as an out of gauge load two weeks later..."

Cheers
Robt P.

There is also a photograph in existance of a GWR 4.4.0 in steam at Hull Springhead during WW2. It was working for the WD.

Even in the 1960s there were some ex-GWR engines still working in the north east. They were at NCB collieries. These engines were 0-6-0 saddle tanks originating on the former Barry Railway, but surplus to the GWR's requirements after the 1923 grouping.

Even worse is to come.

A Southern Engine working as a resident in the North East.

Adams B4 tank engine JERSEY built 1891 at Nine Elms LSWR number 81

Worked at Skinningrove from Sept 1949 till scrapping in 1961

YNMR wrote:There is also a photograph in existance of a GWR 4.4.0 in steam at Hull Springhead during WW2. It was working for the WD.

A 4-4-0? Whatever it was, I'd like details please, if anyone can help.

Kudu

Hi Kudu,
Info I have on the Loco at Springhead is as follows, Unfortunatly the memory played tricks it is actually an 0.6.0 :
"a picture exists that was taken during WW2 at Springhead coaling stage that show a GWR engine in steam at the coaling stage. The engine is numbered as WD199. Little is known about this but the Railway Observer for February 1943 reports that on 8th January 1943 the engine passed southbound through Welwyn Garden City. [It was Dean Goods 0-6-0 2517, sold to the WD in 1940 (with 107 others), given pannier tanks (only 10 locos got them) and it is fitted with condensing apparatus. It was reported in Lincolnshire in 1940 hauling a rail mounted gun. By the end of 1943 it was at Canterbury West doing the same thing. After repair at Longmoor in mid-1944, it disappeared until seen at Cairnryan (in Scotland), derelict, in April 1947. It had gone by August 1947, presumed scrapped.]"

regards

rob237 wrote:"...Nottingham Victoria was the farthest north that Great Western locomotives ventured down the Great Central, except on rare occasions. One of these occasions took place on 15 August 1964 when engine No. 6858 Woolston Grange working the Poole to Bradford/Leeds train, and which normally would have come off at Leicester or Nottingham, managed due to an oversight by control, to reach Huddersfield. However, en route, it had hit the platform edge at Berry Brow station between Penistone and Huddersfield. The loco was quickly removed to Huddersfield shed where it languished well inside until it was towed to Crewe as an out of gauge load two weeks later..."

Full story and pictures of Woolston Grange at Hillhouse shed on 25th August 1964 in Railway Memories No. 13, Huddersfield, Dewsbury and Batley (Bellcode Books, Robert Anderson) as usual. Incidently, this story says that Sheffield Victoria was the limit for GWR engines - any sightings here - and that 6858 left Hillhouse under its own steam for Oxley shed Wolverhampton in the early hours of Wednesday 26th August 1964 as special train 8Z02. It travelled via Stalybridge, was limited to 35 mph and worked by Farnley men as far as Crewe.

Peter

Wasn't one of the GWR diesel railcars (no 19)also trialled in the North East area during April and May of 1942? I'm sure I have seen a photograph somewhere.