Photos of early GCR London Extn carriages?

[wehf100]

Hi,

Does anyone know of a published source of detailed photographs of the first batch of 45ft corridor carriages built by the MSL/GCR for their London Extension in late 1890s? I'm particularly interested in the brake carriages and the panelling around their duckets, but photos showing any sort of detail would be cool (from any era!) By the way, I am aware of an elderly Brake 3rd pictured in Tatlow's LNER Wagons (used as a breakdown van), but this seems somewhat modified.

Any pointers would be gratefully rec'd.

Will

[Bill Bedford]

Hi,

Does anyone know of a published source of detailed photographs of the first batch of 45ft corridor carriages built by the MSL/GCR for their London Extension in late 1890s?

Do you mean the Parker Stock or the slightly earlier teak bogies?

[DaveF]

Hi,

Does anyone know of a published source of detailed photographs of the first batch of 45ft corridor carriages built by the MSL/GCR for their London Extension in late 1890s?

George Dow's Great Central, Vol 2 and 3 might have some information, there are photos of some of the carriages built at that time, also drawings of some (though fairly basic).

David

[wehf100]

Hi chaps,

Thanks for dropping by.

Bill: I'm looking at the carriages built in numbers in 1898-9 by various outside contractors, rather then the small batch built 1895 to try out the new rakes in service. Is that what you meant? I am afraid with no access to GCR diagram books I can't be more specific! (Really going to have to get down to Kew soon- the list of things I need to consult there just for work alone is probably enough for a short city break now!)

Dave: Dow's book has the inevitable poor reproduction of photos as you would expect of a publication of that age. I imagine the original works photographs (that he used) will be kicking around somewhere, but I am not sure where because they weren't usually built 'in house' and be amongst GCR records? I need to do some digging in that respect but I'd rather not do so if some good photos have made it in to published works!

Will

[Bill Bedford]

Bill: I'm looking at the carriages built in numbers in 1898-9 by various outside contractors, rather then the small batch built 1895 to try out the new rakes in service. Is that what you meant? I am afraid with no access to GCR diagram books I can't be more specific! (Really going to have to get down to Kew soon- the list of things I need to consult there just for work alone is probably enough for a short city break now!)

Yep, they are the Parker Stock, all corridor stock with Pullman gangways & Gould couplings.....

You have to be very careful with these. They were built with narrow beading below the windows as in the earlier teak 6-wheeled stock, but some time before about 1905 the were rebuilt with wide (~1.5") beading so they ended up looking a bit like NBR coaches. The best photo I know of them rebuilt is the front end papers of Robinson Locomotives by Haresnape & Rowledge which shows the raised beading with radiused inside corners quite well.

If OTOH you are building a kit AFAIK all kits of these coaches have used the original drawings and so show the coaches before the were rebuilt. If this is the case, the lookouts are the as any of the six wheelers.

[wehf100]

Thanks Bill, that is very useful advice.

Will

[wehf100]

Would anyone care to comment on the leading carriage in this picture? It looks like a rebuilt 1898-9 carriage with the later style guards lookout. Am I correct?

http://www.gcrsociety.co.uk/L121.jpg

It's hard to tell, but the lower beading doesn't look as wide as that on carriages which were built with thick (radiused corner) beading from new??

Will

[2512silverfox]

Although I cannot idetnify the vehicle without looking through a lot of stored info (where for a start!), I am sure that this is the Parker stock that you have been seeking. There are quite a few single vehicles also shown on ECML expresses presumably because with gould vestiblues etc they could be used with standard Gresley stock.

The original photos of these vehicles were in the hands of the PR&PO at Euston and presumably went to the NRM, but although I catalogued all the GN, NE, ECJS and LNE standard photos for the Museum, I do not remember seeing any of the GC built stock. It may be worth telephoning the library.

Nick Campling

[Bill Bedford]

Would anyone care to comment on the leading carriage in this picture? It looks like a rebuilt 1898-9 carriage with the later style guards lookout. Am I correct?

http://www.gcrsociety.co.uk/L121.jpg

It's hard to tell, but the lower beading doesn't look as wide as that on carriages which were built with thick (radiused corner) beading from new??

Mmm Interesting........

It is a Parker stock brake first, with two compartments, diagram 5P4. These is a copy of this diagram in Dow Vol2 which shows thin beading and wooden lookouts. These are said to have been built by Cravens, however my notes show that one, 1611, was built at Gorton in 1900. It is likely that the coach in photo is this coach and it seem to have been built some of the features of the later 50' corridor stock. A second similar coach, 1612, was built at the same time but this was dual braked so was given diagram 5P5, it may also have be fitted with 9'2" Dean bogies.

[manna]

G'Day Gents
Is this of any help, appear to be 4 wheelers, though!!
manna

[Bill Bedford]

G'Day Gents
Is this of any help, appear to be 4 wheelers, though!!
manna

There are all 6 wheelers. They bought lots of them for the opening of the London Branch and then replaced them faily quickly.