Welwyn Garden City s/box 1972/73.

[Mickey]

Just several observations of my time working as a 15/16 year old telegraph lad at Welwyn Garden City from July 1972 to March 1974. Some of you may already know this but for posterity reasons i thought i would put it on the forum. Welwyn Garden City box had sometime in it's past had an extension added to lengthen the box at the north end i believe?. There was 'two lever frames' in the box facing to the back of the box (away from the main running lines). The first lever frame was known as the 'Luton frame' and held about 20 levers all of which were by then 'spares' except for the first two which were both painted brown and worked the barriers on the barrow crossing outside the box crossing the main running lines. The 'main lever' frame was (i think?) made up of 85. Levers 51-59 i'm pretty sure were all spares but the rest were all still working. The detonator stirrups were in the frame but only for the fast lines none were provided for the slow lines. The block instruments were LNER with a round dial like handle to 'peg up' instead of the more usual blocks with pegging handles one sees eles where. The track diagram was quite long and mounted in a glass fronted case with the usual 'clear' illuminated track circuits. By the side of the Telegraph lads desk with the train register on it facing the main running lines was the 'single needle' telegraph instruments. When i was there in 1972/73 up to the time of the re-signalling in September 1973 there was one telegraph instrument and beside it was a wooden cabinet with the four other telegraph circuits in it. The first circuit was Kings Cross to Hitchin the second circuit was Hatfield to Sandy the third was a 'dead circuit' marked Hatfield to Luton and the fourth and last was another 'dead circuit' un-marked but i would guess that was the old Hatfield to Hertford circuit?. Oh yes, the block instruments were all fitted with 'Welwyn release' as if you wouldn't have guessed it!. Micky

[StevieG]

Just several observations of my time working as a 15/16 year old Telegraph lad at Welwyn Garden City from July 1972 to March 1974. Some of you may already know this but for posterity reasons i thought i would put it on the forum. Welwyn Garden City box had sometime in it's past had an extension added to lengthen the box at the north end i believe?. There was 'two lever frames' in the box facing to the back of the box (away from the main running lines). The first lever frame was known as the 'Luton frame' and held about 20 levers all of which were by then 'spares' except for the first two which were both painted brown and worked the barriers on the barrow crossing outside the box crossing the main running lines. The 'main lever' frame was (i think?) made up of 97 levers just a few short of 100!. Levers 51-59 i'm pretty sure were all spares but the rest were all still working. The detonator stirrups were in the frame but only for the fast lines none were provided for the slow lines. The block instruments were LNER with a round dial like handle to 'peg up' instead of the more usual blocks with pegging handles one sees eles where. The track diagram was quite long and mounted in a glass fronted case with the usual 'clear' illuminated track circuits. By the side of the Telegraph lads desk with the train register on it facing the main running lines was the 'single needle' telegraph instruments. When i was there in 1972/73 up to the time of the re-signalling in September 1973 there was one telegraph instrument and beside it was a wooden cabinet with the four other telegraph circuits in it. The first circuit was Kings Cross to Hitchin the second circuit was Hatfield to Sandy the third was a 'dead circuit' marked Hatfield to Luton and the fourth and last was another 'dead circuit' un-marked but i would guess that was the old Hatfield to Hertford circuit?. Oh yes, the block instruments were all fitted with 'Welwyn release' as if you wouldn't have guessed it!. Micky

Micky,
The main frame was 1 - 85.
51-59 had been the two sets of motor points (52 & 56) and associated signals at the Hatfield end of the up yard, where, as you may know, what had become that long siding southwards beside the Up Slow, had previously been the Up Goods to Hatfield No.2.

[Mickey]

Stevie, i guess your right about the 'main lever frame' being 85 levers in total the passage of time plays tricks with ones memory, for some reason i've always thought that the total number was 97?. Up around the high numbers 70s & 80s those levers they were all associated with the FPLs/points/disc signals & miniture arms around No4 platform (up back platform-Hertford branch platform) coming off the connection from the up slow to the up yard and going from No4 platform onto and off the Hertford branch with several sets of other points & dollies in and around that area. Nos 70 & 72 i think were those 2 miniture arms on the tall'ish concrete posts one coming out of the yard and the other coming from the Shredded wheat factory. Now i'm thinking about it No 85 was the miniture arm on the bracketed post coming off the Hertford branch into the yard. As for me saying that Nos 51-59 were all 'spares' well i'm pretty sure that by the summer of 1972 none of those levers were working anything that i can remember?. Some i think were still in there old colours but i think most were painted white. I've got an s&t diagram of some track and s&t alterations that were carried out around 1960 and it shows all of that area on the up side at Welwyn Garden City that all those levers were associated with i'll have to dig it out and have another look. Micky

[Mickey]

Stevie & everyone, i'm gonna try and post a copy of a picture that i was given about 3 or 4 years ago of an interior shot of Welwyn Garden City box taken by a railway visitor and his friend in June 1973 about three months before the frame was taken out and replaced by an NX panel. Apart from myself being in said picture wearing long hair and leaning over the book writing in the TRB it shows alot of the lever frame and block shelf plus the 'cheapo' track diagram (red track circuits did BR think Welwyn was on the London Midland Region?) that BR put in after Absolute block was abolished and superseded by TCB south of Welwyn Garden City to Hatfield No2. Also BR enlarged the old toilet so to do that they had to lose half of the windows at the north end of the box which spoilt the box abit for me. The fella 'on the frame' in the picture isn't the signalman it's a railwayman named 'Frank Chevers' if anyone knows of Frank cos he was a GN man i think before going over to the LMR!. I'll try and post it tomorrow Sunday if i can get my daughter to do it for me which i think she will. Micky

[hq1hitchin]

Stevie & everyone, i'm gonna try and post a copy of a picture that i was given about 3 or 4 years ago of an interior shot of Welwyn Garden City box taken by a railway visitor and his friend in June 1973 about three months before the frame was taken out and replaced by an NX panel. Apart from myself being in said picture wearing long hair and leaning over the book writing in the TRB it shows alot of the lever frame and block shelf plus the 'cheapo' track diagram (red track circuits did BR think Welwyn was on the London Midland Region?) that BR put in after Absolute block was abolished and superseded by TCB south of Welwyn Garden City to Hatfield No2. Also BR enlarged the old toilet so to do that they had to lose half of the windows at the north end of the box which spoilt the box abit for me. The fella 'on the frame' in the picture isn't the signalman it's a railwayman named 'Frank Chevers' if anyone knows of Frank cos he was a GN man i think before going over to the LMR!. I'll try and post it tomorrow Sunday if i can get my daughter to do it for me which i think she will. Micky

Allow me, young Michael - apologies for not using a lever cloth!!

[Mickey]

Yeah thats the one. I'd love to go back to that time again great days indeed... Micky

[hq1hitchin]

Yes, happy days indeed. Welwyn Garden City would soon show up any signalman (not signaller, note - a terrible term!) who wasn't of the best quality. In the days before the flyover, all the terminating inner suburbans had to be crossed there without delaying the main line stuff as well as the need to regulate trains across Welwyn Viaduct. My abiding memory of the place is that there was always something going on. It was always thought that the signalman held responsible for the 1935 collision, which occurred outside the box, wasn't really up to the job but whether that is entirely true, I cannot say. The LNER must have been kind to him, though, as he was kept on as a guard afterwards so tells me Chief Inspector Nye.

[Mickey]

Yeah old 'Noggy' Nye thats a name from the dim and distant past. I came across the 'official report' on that 1935 accident at Welwyn several months ago, of course i had read about it in books years ago but the official report goes into loads of detail that i never knew before. I can remember being in Welwyn box as a Tele-lad thinking this is where that accident happend. The other accident that i had heard about but didn't know to much about was that 'strange' accident at Connington south in 1967 where that signalman 'deliberately' got a down express off the road by somehow working out that if he put the home signal back to danger the moment the front of the loco had passed the signal he had a 'split second' where he could un-lock the facing points and pull the points under the train!. You wanna get the official report of that if you havan't already read it (it's on line) it's very interesting reading. Micky

[Mickey]

I remember old Harry Fitzgerald telling me a story about the driver that was involved in that 1956 rear end collision on the up fast line just south of the twentieth mile bridge. I'm pretty sure Harry wasn't at Welwyn in '56 so he must have got this story 'second hand' himself?. Come to think of it i don't know if old 'Chalky' White was at Welwyn in '56 i never knew how long he had been there i just assumed because he was older then the other two he had been there the longest?. Anyway, as you all know at the south end of Digswell viaduct there use to be Welwyn north's up main starter a semaphore signal which carried Welwyn Garden City's 'motorised' distant signal beneath it aswell as the the signal to take you off the up main onto the up slow. I don't know to much about this accident it seems straight forward enough driver error?, but apparently the driver i believe claimed that coming south across Digswell viaduct he had Welwyn's distant showing off although all the evidents points to the contrary but the driver stuck to his story and said that Welwyn Garden City's up fast distant signal was showing a clear off!. Anyway, the driver must have continued driving because for ever after when ever that driver came up road south through Welwyn north and he was checked at Welwyn Garden City he would stop outside the box at Welwyn Garden City and tell the 'Bobby' that "His up fast distant was showing off!." Harry said that BR management got so p****d off with this particular driver reporting this up distant signal as a 'wrong side failure' that in the end they decided to replace it with a colour light signal instead. Thats the story Harry Fitzgerald told me nearly 40 years ago. Micky

[manna]

G'Day Gents

That used to be a quick shunt when you came into WGC with a Brush 2 + 5, out onto the down main, then back it fast onto the up 'goods'? then pull it into the yard, always had my head out the window when we did that, watching those coaches snake across the main and slow lines, and thinking what a mess there'll be if one come's off!!
manna

[Mickey]

Yeah like what was said previously Welwyn Garden City box sorted the men out from the boys alright. I knew of one or two relief signalmen' who didn't want anything to do with working Welwyn Garden City at anytime except on a 'quiet buckshee Sunday turn' maybe but otherwise forget the place . Micky

[Mickey]

The above picture was taken around June 1973 in Welwyn Garden City box and that's me as a 16 year old telegraph lad leaning over the train register book doing the booking while the bloke on the lever frame is a gentleman named Frank Chevers who was a visitor visiting the box that day with a friend of Frank's (who took the picture). Frank went on to become a ops manager on the London Midland region during the 1980s-2000s until he retired around 10 years ago. I vaguely remember the picture being taken.

Notice the 'temporary' track diagram that replaced a glass fronted track diagram in a wooden surrounded case which was brought into use when the Hatfield No.2 NX panel was commissioned in late May 1973 along with the closure of Hatfield No.1 box. Also note two out of the four Thompson LNER block instruments and other individual block bells on view on the block shelf.

At the far end of the box note the new larger toilet that was built very early in 1973 which required removing a complete window sash to extend the original toilet which can be seen by the two different colour grey doors the left-hand door was nailed up with the right-hand door being the new toilet door.

[StevieG]

G'Day Gents

That used to be a quick shunt when you came into WGC with a Brush 2 + 5, out onto the down main, then back it fast onto the up 'goods'? then pull it into the yard, always had my head out the window when we did that, watching those coaches snake across the main and slow lines, and thinking what a mess there'll be if one come's off!!
manna

Propelling back from the Down Main got you over to the Up Slow manna, and (unless you were going to stop there, run-round via the Up Back Platform [old No.4; more recently No.1] and form something going back Up road,) then either : -
- keep going south until out of the south end of the station, then draw forward into the UBP, (run-round ?) and stable - ; else propel back into the south end of the yard ; - OR -
- stop in the Up Slow platform and draw forward northwards out of the platform along the Up Slow to the Limit of Shunt board, then propel again, back into either the UBP or the Up Yard.

Mickey, manna, there was one occasion I know of when that move from the Down side did come off the road (you may know/recall Mickey).
The empty stock train went out onto the DM safely and was slowing right down, under handsignals from the Guard at the rear, ready to come to a stand just clear of the DM/Up Fast crossover points.
However (there had to be one of those ! ), although there was a track circuit along the DM that ended at the crossover and its setback dolly No.30, those points were not locked by its being occupied. The bobby, in looking for the train to be clear of the crossover points so that they could be reversed and the dolly pulled off at the earliest opportunity, viewed the rear of the train through the box window rather than looking at the illuminated track diagram, ...... and pulled the points and got the dolly 'Off' while straddled by the still slowly moving north train's last carriage, just before it actually came to a stand; and so the last carriage's rear bogie ran through the points, seriously distorting the right-hand switch.

On stopping, the Guard saw the dolly 'Off' and started calling the loco crew back : ..... Voila! - bumpety-bumpety-bump ; one derailed coach, blocking the DM, and with the crossover Reverse !

I imagine that delays were not insignificant.

[Mickey]

As you would know Stevie the usual practice when propelling a train from the Down main line back across to the Up side via the main to main crossover (no.29 points) and the Up fast to Up slow line 'turn in' connection that you wanted to carry on and go into the 'back platform' or no.4 platform at the south end of the station was after 'clearing' no.30 'dolly' and no.47 signal at the south end of the Up slow line platform was for the signalman to stand at the open window and wave the driver on or through the Up slow line platform. In those days the late 1960s & early 1970s a driver propelling a x4 car Cravens unit and driving from 'the wrong end' or a diesel hauled (usually a Brush type 2) propelling a set of 5 or 6 block enders (inner suburban coaches) was normal practice back then at Welwyn before the 'Welwyn flyover' opened in early 1974.


I don't remember that particular incident Stevie so it must have occurred shortly before my time when I first arrived in the box in July 1972.
Interesting I wasn't aware that no.29 lever the main to main crossover points weren't 'track locked' by the occupation of the TC in the Down main line?.

Yes without a doubt that would have caused some delay Stevie I presume the Hitchin BDVs (Brakedown vans) were summoned along with the local B.R. signalling Inspector Ted Bosnall and the local P.Way inspector and ganger and also I can imagine Tony Cato S&T and his merry men trooping up the box in the aftermath as well.

[Mickey]

I remember one day Tony Cato the S&T linesman was in the box and for some reason during a conversation it was brought about putting no.33 signal lever back in the frame as soon as the loco had passed under the signal?. As you would know Stevie no.33 signal was the Up fast line inner home signal on the gantry at the Hunters road bridge and was one signal amongst a group of 5 signals in total on that gantry and beyond the gantry lay the facing connection from the Up fast to Up slow line via no.27 points and it's associated Facing Point Lock lever no.28 anyway I suspect Harry Fitzgerald the signalman knew the reason why he shouldn't put no.33 signal lever back in the frame until the whole train had passed completely over no.27 facing points ahead of no.33 signal but Harry said that no.27 facing points were still locked by no.28 FPL lever so why shouldn't he put no.33 lever back in the frame once the loco had passed the signal and before the whole train had passed over the facing points?. Anyway I remember Tony saying that no.33 signal wire runs through the 'detector slide' mechanism on the ground at no.27 points and it doubly 'proved the route' was locked through no.27 facing points with no.33 signal lever being pulled off!.

Basic stuff Stevie but an interesting little encounter between Tony and Harry although as I said I suspect Harry knew why he shouldn't have put no.33 lever back in the frame until the whole train had passed over the facing points.