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LNER D167 Buffet carriage
Posted: Fri Jan 01, 2010 11:42 pm
by gdb
The LNER CA website makes reference to these buffet coaches as being fitted with three dynamos when the cooking equipment was powered by electricity. I presume that one dynamo was at one end of the coach and the other two dynamos were driven from the other bogie... but how wherfe the two dynamos, at the same end of teh coach, arranged on the underframe given that there was a vacuum cylinder in close proximity?
thank you for your assistance, Graham Beare
Re: LNER D167 Buffet carriage
Posted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 12:25 am
by Wavey
2 dynamos at one end would have been powered by 1 axle that had 2 pulleys attached to it. The vacuum cylinders are slightly closer to the centre of the vehicle so would not have got in the way. All the Dia 167's that survived (like 641 of which I am the owner) were converted to propane for the boiler and cooking so the additional dynamos were removed during the 1950's. At this time the original electrical system was replaced with standard BR kit .The underframe of 641 shows evidenence of the additional dynamos (holes and remnants of brackets).
Re: LNER D167 Buffet carriage
Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 9:07 pm
by gdb
Wavey wrote:2 dynamos at one end would have been powered by 1 axle that had 2 pulleys attached to it. The vacuum cylinders are slightly closer to the centre of the vehicle so would not have got in the way. All the Dia 167's that survived (like 641 of which I am the owner) were converted to propane for the boiler and cooking so the additional dynamos were removed during the 1950's. At this time the original electrical system was replaced with standard BR kit .The underframe of 641 shows evidenence of the additional dynamos (holes and remnants of brackets).
Hi Wavey,
Thank you for taking the time to reply to my query.
I have the "Just Like The Real Thing" kit for a Gresley D167 and I intend to complete the model as an "electric" cooking carriage, hence my initial question. If you are in a position to assist further, there are some aspects of the prototype which I need some help.
[1] where does the steam heat pipe run in regard to the underframe? (above/below? centre? crossing the long girders?)
[2] as [1] for the vacuum pipe?
[3] photographs of Gresley LNER coaches show a cylindrical tank mounted in a horizontal position near to the vacuum cylinders... what it the purpose of the tank?
[4] where the coaches equipped with a DA valve and if so where located?
As I have several JLTRT Gresley kits I have tried to arrange two dynamos in relation to the vacuum cylinder as you have described and there is an issue of negative clearance.... can you be more specific as to where the dynamos where attached to the underframe structure?
Thank you for your assistance, Graham Beare
Re: LNER D167 Buffet carriage
Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 9:51 pm
by Wavey
Graham,
Added some comments below:
[1] where does the steam heat pipe run in regard to the underframe? (above/below? centre? crossing the long girders?)
Underneath quite high up and quite central. Mostly aove the level of the bottom of the solebars so nor really visible.
[2] as [1] for the vacuum pipe?
Attached to the outside of the solebar on 1 side of the coach
[3] photographs of Gresley LNER coaches show a cylindrical tank mounted in a horizontal position near to the vacuum cylinders... what it the purpose of the tank?
Vaccuum reservoir for the brake system
[4] where the coaches equipped with a DA valve and if so where located?
No - in brake vehicles the guards brake valve acted like a DA valve.
As I have several JLTRT Gresley kits I have tried to arrange two dynamos in relation to the vacuum cylinder as you have described and there is an issue of negative clearance.... can you be more specific as to where the dynamos where attached to the underframe structure?
Difficult to explain but from drawings on the Harris books the dynamos were staggered slightly.
I think you need to go and have a look at a full sized version and take some pictures which will give you a better idea. Have you any Gresley coaches near where you live?
Dave
Re: LNER D167 Buffet carriage
Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 11:25 pm
by gdb
Wavey wrote:
Added some comments below:
[1] where does the steam heat pipe run in regard to the underframe? (above/below? centre? crossing the long girders?)
Underneath quite high up and quite central. Mostly aove the level of the bottom of the solebars so nor really visible.
[2] as [1] for the vacuum pipe?
Attached to the outside of the solebar on 1 side of the coach
[3] photographs of Gresley LNER coaches show a cylindrical tank mounted in a horizontal position near to the vacuum cylinders... what it the purpose of the tank?
Vaccuum reservoir for the brake system
[4] where the coaches equipped with a DA valve and if so where located?
No - in brake vehicles the guards brake valve acted like a DA valve.
As I have several JLTRT Gresley kits I have tried to arrange two dynamos in relation to the vacuum cylinder as you have described and there is an issue of negative clearance.... can you be more specific as to where the dynamos where attached to the underframe structure?
Difficult to explain but from drawings on the Harris books the dynamos were staggered slightly.
I think you need to go and have a look at a full sized version and take some pictures which will give you a better idea. Have you any Gresley coaches near where you live?
Dave
Thank you for your prompt reply, very helpful. Please allow me to come back on your answers.
[1] Some broadside images of carriage 7960 (SVR) show the steam pipe to slope down to the cenre of the coach where the drip trap is located. The pipe looks to be about 9" lower than the solebars at this point - is this reasonable?
[2] So far I have found internet photographs of eight D167 coaches in preservation and my interpretation of those photos is that the vacuum pipe is on the solebar and on the side with the saloon area to the RHS. How is deduction with regard to 641? (of which I have yet to find a photograph).
[3] So one reservoir for each vacuum cylinder? How are the vacuum reservoir and vacuum cylinder connected to the train pipe?
Basingstoke.... so nowhere near where the restored Gresleys can be found. And if all of the preserved D167 were converted from gas / electricity to propane then will any of those coaches still have any of the 2nd / 3rd dynamo gear present?
Apart from the dynamo, two central battery boxes, two vacuum cylinders/reservoirs.... what other gubbins could have been found under the buffet coaches prior to conversion to propane? (I ask because some of the photos of preserved coaches suggest that there are several extra boxes / regulators in the central area of the underframe).
thank you and regards, Graham Beare