NER Brake Van Lamps

[richard]

I've just about "finished" a Connoisseur NER V1 brake van in 7mm scale. This is the classic NER design with a roof lookout (cupola in US caboose terminology) at one end.

I've decided to fit working lamps to it. What was a typical map arrangement in ~1890s?
What colour were they? I'm guessing white lamp bodies with red lenses?

There are three lamp irons on each end. Two are at a lower level: centre and on the right. The third is in a mid-centre position.
There are also single lamp irons on the upper left of the side doors.

I notice that some manufacturers have railway-specific lamps for 7mm scale, although from what I can tell, their designs did not vary much (or not in a way that can be seen in 7mm). So I assume a general design (eg. from Slaters) should be suitable.


Richard

[richard]

Does anyone have any references for NER train operating procedures - especially with regard to brake van lamps?

I've ordered the Irwell book on NER Brake Vans, but suspect it won't go into this kind of detail?

Richard

[StevieG]

With a caution that NER practice might have been different, and without resort to searching out relevant Rules/General Appendix instructions, as far as I recall, the BR(ER) Southern Area (well, GN line anyway) late 1960s (i.e., after E & NE Regions had combined) practice, was a normal red tail lamp (white casing) on the rear main verandah panelling (slightly off-centre if memory serves), with white side lamps [black casing I think? (& capable of also showing a white light forward?)] high up on each rear corner.

The side lamps were used then on freights which were partially-fitted (marshalled with only some vehicles continuous brake-fitted) or unfitted (no contin.-braked vehicles), and they could take a red slide so that their rearward light was red instead of white.
This made possible the rear lamp displays (as seen on the GN line, London area & home counties) :
- when on Main/Fast line - 3 reds
- when on 1st additional running line (on left) - RH side lamp (as seen from rear), white, the other two lamps red
- on a 2nd additional running line - 3 reds again,
- on a 3rd addtl.line - 1 white & 2 reds again, as for 1st addtl.line.
So this was another reason for the guard to remain aware of which line the train was on, changing the side lamp display as necessary if the train crossed from one line to another parallel one.

[richard]

Thanks - that makes sense, and presumably BR-wide practice would have been (or getting close to being) standardised by then?

I'm looking a bit earlier and NER so it is hard to extrapolate (as you note). The vans don't have lamp irons on the upper end corners, but there are lamp irons on the sides by the door. These could be for forward/rear lamps (as you describe) - and being close to the door would aid accessibility (no verandah).


Richard

[chaz harrison]

Richard,

I believe the fixed lamps on the sides of older (pre-grouping?) brake vans were accessible from inside the van, through a hole or a shutter. Maybe someone can confirm this?

Chaz

[StevieG]

.... " The vans don't have lamp irons on the upper end corners, but there are lamp irons on the sides by the door. " ....

Richard

You've set me thinking with this comment. On reflection it is possible that, from my only occasional night-time sightings from within signal boxes, I had made a supposition, and that the side lamps could after all, have been where you say. Unless closely seen as they passed, seen from there, the difference between the two mentioned possible mounting locations would not have been very obvious.

[richard]

StevieG: Well you saw them (which beats me!). Different brake vans had different lamp iron positions. The chances are you saw few if any NER V1s. Quite a few survived into LNER days, but I doubt many were being used at Nationalisation?
ie what you saw could well have been different. + from photos, the lamp irons on the ends are definitely different on different brake van designs.


Richard

[Bryan]

Just been checking through Ian Sadlers book on NER Brake vans the V1 /1 section.
On p4 the following paragraph reads:-
"One improvement in the 1890s was the provision of tail lamp doors, these were small hatches enabling the guard to change the lamp from one end to the other, without the need to go outside with all the clambering up and down steps."

Does that answer the query?

North Eastern Railway Brakevans
Ian G Sadler
Railway Bylines special
ISBN 9-781903-266335

[richard]

Yes that is the book I have on order.

The question: What was the lighting arrangements? Which/where should the lamps be, and what colours?
I'm assuming lamps were white bodies with red lenses, but where were they positioned on the V1? What about the side lamps? Did they run with side lamps. Were they regular lamps or forward/reverse facing lamps - similar to the permanent lamps on later vans?

I am planning on fitting working lamps on my V1 brakevan.

Richard

[Bryan]

No mention in the article about lamp colours or what colour of light.

[richard]

Shame. Well the book will be useful for other things.

Perhaps I should ask the NERA next...


Richard