The LNER Encyclopedia

I'm new here, but I've been reading the various subjects for a few months now and couldn't help noticing several mentions of Lincoln, where I was dragged up! Until the end of steam on BR I lived in Lincoln (left to go to college, not because of the end of steam!) - the Lincoln-Grantham line went past the bottom of our garden (mainly dmu's by this time) and I had a clear view of the Avoiding Line in the distance (mainly long goods with WD's, 9F's, O4's and B1's except at holiday times when all sorts of machines dragged long trains of blood and custard stock towards Skeggy and Cleethorpes, sometimes even a V2). I still have vivid memories of Ourebi, Hartebeeste, Geoffrey Gibbs as well as various K3's, which were a favourite engine - the best days though were when engineering works were carried out on the ECML and all main line trains were diverted via Lincoln and the bottom of my garden - how considerate! I often awoke before dawn on these days to the mournful chime of a streak leaving the station and dashed down the garden in my pyjamas on the off-chance it was coming in my direction! Processions of A1's, A2's, A3's, A4's, V2's and on several occasions the prototype Deltic - if only I'd been old enough to realise it wouldn't last or that I'd been into photography.
Anyway, the main purpose of this is to ask if anyone can point me in the right direction to find out more about Lincoln's highlight of the day at that time, which was known locally as "The Boat Train" - it was a daily up and back train from Parkeston Quay to Liverpool via the Spalding line and at the time I clearly remember it was the preserve of 'Brits' in both directions, Earl Haigh and the like. I've googled and read snippets in various books - that it was known as 'The North Country Continental' (though it never carried such a headboard), that it split at Doncaster or Sheffield for portions to go to Newcastle (?) and that it used the Avoiding Line in Lincoln (rubbish - it was the highlight of the day to dash down from school on the pushbike to catch it leaving Central Station southbound around 4.15-4.30pm; northbound was around 11.30am from the station, unless the old memories failing me again). Any information gratefully received. Paul M.

lincolnian wrote:Anyway, the main purpose of this is to ask if anyone can point me in the right direction to find out more about Lincoln's highlight of the day at that time, which was known locally as "The Boat Train" - it was a daily up and back train from Parkeston Quay to Liverpool via the Spalding line and at the time I clearly remember it was the preserve of 'Brits' in both directions, Earl Haigh and the like. I've googled and read snippets in various books - that it was known as 'The North Country Continental' (though it never carried such a headboard),

You will find the early history of this train in 'Great Central in LNER Days' Vol 1. Long out of print, but obtainable for less than a tenner.

Bill Bedford wrote:

lincolnian wrote:Anyway, the main purpose of this is to ask if anyone can point me in the right direction to find out more about Lincoln's highlight of the day at that time, which was known locally as "The Boat Train" - it was a daily up and back train from Parkeston Quay to Liverpool via the Spalding line and at the time I clearly remember it was the preserve of 'Brits' in both directions, Earl Haigh and the like. I've googled and read snippets in various books - that it was known as 'The North Country Continental' (though it never carried such a headboard),

You will find the early history of this train in 'Great Central in LNER Days' Vol 1. Long out of print, but obtainable for less than a tenner.

Also try to get C.J. Allen's 'Titled Trains of Gt. Britain', which gives the history of the train up to, and including BR days, plus a splendid shot of 61631 Selby Hall departing from Lincoln with the down train. Gerry Fiennes second book 'Fiennes On Rails' gives a characteristically atmospheric description of rescuing the up train in East Anglian snowdrifts, 1935.

Thanks Bill and hq1hitchin - I'll have to check these out tonight on the interweb thingie! Paul M.

Being a Selby(Yorks) lad I'm chuffed to bits to find out after all these years that there was a Sandringham class loco named after the non-existant Selby Hall!!!
Keep up the good work

50C

From Summer 1957 Great Eastern (Cambridge) Carriage Workings:

8.00 am ex-Parkeston (Seat reservations applicable on this train)

TSO(64)* - 48 seats for meals (Sheffield V)
RKB (Sheffield V)
SK(8)* (Manchester C)
CK(4-3)* (Manchester C)
FK(6)** (Liverpool C - remainder of train)
BG
SK(8)*
SK(8)*
TSO(64)*
TSO(64)*
BSK(4)*
SK(7) MFSO

* = BR Standard Stock (Mark I)
** = transverse corridor stock (ie Thompson)

MFSO = Monday, Friday, Saturday only

Return working was 12.50 pm (next day) from Liverpool C

Sheffield V portion worked out and back same day (depart Sheffield 3.11 pm).

The RKB was in the mid-1950s one of several conversions of Gresley restaurant cars c1953.

Train reversed at Manchester Central. It ran via the now-closed line across the Trent south of Gainsborough (the surviving stub of which serves Cottam Power Station). It was diverted via Gainsborough on closure of that route.

Page 33 in 'Steam Memories: 1950's-1960's No. 15 Sheffield' published by BLP has a photo of the Harwich-Liverpool Central boat train, dated Summer 1958. The train is approaching Sheffield and is hauled by 70009.

Hello Lincolnian (I think you deserve a capital 'L' don't you?):

My 1959 Summer ER timetable shows the northbound Boat Train leaving Lincoln Central at 1146 and the southbound at 1646. I started 'spotting in 1958 and, although I haven't kept my records, I can recall the locos used were: B17s up to 1958, V2s and B1s up to late 1960, 'Brits' up to late 1961 and EE Class 37s from late 1961 onwards. I think Brush Class 33s also made appearances from time to time. All locos were from March.

I went to the Lincoln School on Wragby Road and lived on Burton Road, so if I wanted the see the Boat Train I had to catch one of the school buses into town and then another bus back up hill again. I did that one gloomy afternoon, to be rewarded by the sight of 'Britannia' heading the Boat Train! No-one believed me at school the next day!

FWIW, I think the photo of a Brit heading the Boat Train in 1958 is incorrectly dated: in 1958 all the ER Brits were still at Stratford and I think it highly unlkely (although not impossible) that one would have been scheduled on the Boat Train.

By the description of where you lived, it sounds like you lived on South Park or thereabouts. We used to envy kids who went to St Andrew's School, as it was next to the 'High Line' and they got to see the 'trialler' - the ex-works (or new) loco from Doncaster that was given a proving run on a Doncaster-March (and back) freight twice a week. There were reports of some real rarities on this, for example Scottish A2s, but by 1960 it was mainly new diesels.

You may be correct that the Boat Train bypassed Lincoln and used the High Line in its last days. I think I have seen a photo of this, but can't remember where.

Form the early 70s the Boat Train was rerouted via Peterborough, Grantham, Nottingham Midland and Sheffield Midland following the closure of the ex-GC line to Manchester. Does anyone know how much longer it lasted?

Cheers

Alan

Hi Pyewipe - I was wondering if I'd get a response from you (I know the pub better than the junction!) ... and you're quite right about the 'L', I'm sure my registration had a capital, but hey ho.
South Park was indeed where I lived and I also went to THE Grammar School, hence I was often held up on my pushbike at the Durham Ox crossing (even after Pelham Bridge was opened for quite a while) by the Boat Train heading back to Harwich.
I started at Wragby Road in 1958 and I honestly can't remember seeing anything other than Brits in charge, although I'm well aware that the train has a long history and B17's were regulars previously and before that Atlantics, I believe ... V2's though? I'm almost certain that the High Line was never used in steam days ..... and I saw 'Britannia' in charge on several occasions... plus Lord Hurcombe ... and Boadicea ... and Hereward the Wake ... and Black Prince ... etc., etc., anyway, I've purchased both of the tomes suggested above by Bill and hq1hitchin and I cannot wait to wallow! Did the March engines work all the way through, for example?
A related thing which puzzles me - in my original posting I mentioned K3's as a favourite engine - very impressive in close up - I'm certain that the one I saw around Lincoln Central most regularly was 61822, yet according to records it left Lincoln shed in 1950, when I was 3!!! If only I could locate my combined volume ......
Paul M.

Apologies, I forgot to say thanks to robertcwp for his info, it's all good stuff.

Paul M.

In the 1971 GE carriage workings book the 0733(1M72) Parkestone to Manchester via the joint line and was formed of..
TSO
TSO
TSO
CK(4+3)
BG
RB
TSO
CK(4+3)
CK(4+3)
BSK(4)

with a note that passengers for Worksop to excluded from H, G & F (the first three)

In 1977 it was still running with vacuum braked and steam heated stock comprising of..
SK(8)
TSO
CK(4+3)
BSK(4)
BSK(4)(BRAKE COMPS ADJACENT)
RB(KITCHEN END TRAILING)
TSO
FK(7)
SK(8)

with a note, Reverse formation between Sheffield and Manchester..

I think the March locos took the Boat Train from March to Sheffield and back. There must have been another loco for the Harwich - March leg. There were definitely V2s for a while - March had four or five of them up to 1960. They were also used on the March to Doncaster stoppers until they were withdrawn in 1959. I remember it was quite sad to see such a dignified and powerful loco pulling three or four ancient ex-LNER carriages.

The photo I remember of the Boat Train using the High Line was during diesel days. I have no idea why it was using it.

In one of the Ian C Allen albums he observes that the train was double headed by a Britannia and a K3 from (memory may be faulty) Ipswich to March to resolve an unbalanced working.

As an aside....why do we call them boat trains, shouldn't they be ship trains or ferry trains?

52A wrote:As an aside....why do we call them boat trains, shouldn't they be ship trains or ferry trains?

A very good question. Not sure but might it be that the first to run in this country connected with the Packet Boats plying across the English Channel. Could that be it?

Certainly boat train sounds right to our ears now, ship train or ferry train wouldn't. Can't be many of them left now....

hq1hitchin wrote:

52A wrote:As an aside....why do we call them boat trains, shouldn't they be ship trains or ferry trains?

A very good question. Not sure but might it be that the first to run in this country connected with the Packet Boats plying across the English Channel. Could that be it?

Certainly boat train sounds right to our ears now, ship train or ferry train wouldn't. Can't be many of them left now....

I must admit it always seemed a bit odd waiting for the 'Boat Train' in Lincoln, 45-odd miles from the coast at its nearest point!

Anyway, 'Great Central in LNER Days' arrived today, so I've something to look forward to.

It's been my day today in more ways than one - I had to go to Newcastle on business and I was nodding off on a bench awaiting the distinctly uninspiring Transpennine Express to take me back to York when I was brought back to full consciousness by a familiar sound, which turned out to be 'Tornado' in all it's glory. Most of the coaches looked as though they'd been picked up at a scrap yard, but what a sight ... and what an engine! I must admit, though, that it seems a bit degrading to see it pulled backwards out of the station on the 'end' of its coaches (I do understand why, but that doesn't help) - I would think it's already travelled more miles in reverse that any other A1, or maybe even any pacific?! (wonder if someone has records of this???!).

Thanks again everyone for all and any info on my original posting, I'm a happy man (but please don't stop if there's more!).
Paul M.