The LNER Encyclopedia

for want of a better section to place this in, ive put it here. if its wrong Mods then please feel free to move it

Last nights BBC Four broadcast is now available on the BBCi Player

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0 ... n_Express/

From 1954, the 09.30 non stop Elizabethan Express from Kings Cross to Edinburgh hauled by 60017 Silver Fox

loads of great background scenes as well

Yes, I have this on the British Steam Railways DVDs, notice, when they show the works, Silver Fox wasn't in, so there's a handily placed cloth over the last two numbers!

I watched the Elizabethan film again today.

Is it certain that this was shot in 1954?

I know that's the date given for the film on the BFI DVD compilation.

I noticed various continuity issues with the stock. When the train leaves KX, the corridor third with ladies' retiring room which follows the buffet lounge has the retiring room at the north end; in other shots the vehicle is the opposite way round. Hence, they clearly filmed both train sets.

One run-by shot is of the train going south and another where it is behind trees is a different train with at least one vehicle in teak or ersatz teak.

At Edinburgh, ladies are seen alighting from a Mark I CK but no such vehicle was in the train.

Still a good film though.

In 1953, the year of the present Queen's Coronation, the summer non-stop changed its name from the Capitals Limited to The Elizabethan in honour of this event. Although the BTC film is dated 1954 it may be that the filming was actually done the previous summer when A4 60017 Silver Fox was a regular performer on this train. The King's Cross crew were Bob Marrable and Roland Ruffell and the Haymarket crew Tony McCleod and Mungo Scott. Roland Ruffle wrote a book, 48 Years on the Footplate, published a few years ago, in which he mentions the filming. The film conveys the atmosphere on the footplate of an express steam locomotive very well, despite the now very dated commentary -although ,to be fair, we are talking of almost 56 years ago.

stembok wrote:In 1953, the year of the present Queen's Coronation, the summer non-stop changed its name from the Capitals Limited to The Elizabethan in honour of this event. Although the BTC film is dated 1954 it may be that the filming was actually done the previous summer when A4 60017 Silver Fox was a regular performer on this train. The King's Cross crew were Bob Marrable and Roland Ruffell and the Haymarket crew Tony McCleod and Mungo Scott. Roland Ruffle wrote a book, 48 Years on the Footplate, published a few years ago, in which he mentions the filming. The film conveys the atmosphere on the footplate of an express steam locomotive very well, despite the now very dated commentary -although ,to be fair, we are talking of almost 56 years ago.

Thanks for your reply. 1953 looks possible for the filming. I have been trying to chart the changes to the train formation for the Capitals/Elizabethan and was hoping 1954 might be a definite date for the filming as it would indicate that the BCK in the Aberdeen portion was still a Thompson vehicle at that time. Michael Harris suggested 1954 as the date this changed to a BR Standard vehicle. I shall look for more photos.

Unfortunately Roly Ruffell doesn't mention any dates when he writes about making the 'Elizabethan Express' in his excellent book entitled '48 Years On The Footplate' but what he does say is that, owing the cramped conditions on a footplate (even an A4), filming there would have been quite impractical on a service train so it was mostly done with specials over a period of two days between KX and Grantham using 60030 Golden Fleece. He also says that the film was made over a period of about two weeks, being filmed at various locations on different days. Incidentally, I am I alone in regarding Thompson stock as looking rather austere and univiting?

hq1hitchin wrote: Incidentally, I am I alone in regarding Thompson stock as looking rather austere and univiting?

A bit like the man himself!!

Ha ha - hadn't thought of it that way but - yes, very true although suspect he has been rather maligned over the years.

Thanks again for the information.

Looking at reports in contemporary journals, it appears that the Mark I BCK did not enter traffic until the summer of 1954 and that the initial allocation was to West Riding services. I think it's more likely to have been 1955 (or even 1956) when the Elizabethan's full set of Thompson stock was disrupted by the appearance of a Mark I at the north end.

Two other questions if I may:

Did the Elizabethan always include through coaches to/from Aberdeen both ways? I thought it had done until I saw a 1958 carriage working extract which suggested train was only King's Cross-Edinburgh and return that year.

In 1961, the Thompson corridor firsts with ladies' retiring room (that facility being officially 'unclassed' since at least 1958) disappeared from the sets, as did the Thompson restaurant second open, these vehicles being replaced by Mark I FK and the then-new Mark I RUO respectively. As the corridor second with ladies retiring room had disappeared from the train by 1958, this would have left the service without the ladies' retiring room facility. I can't tell from the photos I have found whether the corridor seconds with ladies retiring rooms were restored in 1961 (they were in the train in 1962, when the other seconds were all Mark I). Does anyone happen to know whether the seconds with ladies' rooms were back in the Elizabethan in 1961?

hq1hitchin wrote:Unfortunately Roly Ruffell doesn't mention any dates when he writes about making the 'Elizabethan Express' in his excellent book entitled '48 Years On The Footplate' but what he does say is that, owing the cramped conditions on a footplate (even an A4), filming there would have been quite impractical on a service train so it was mostly done with specials over a period of two days between KX and Grantham using 60030 Golden Fleece. He also says that the film was made over a period of about two weeks, being filmed at various locations on different days. Incidentally, I am I alone in regarding Thompson stock as looking rather austere and univiting?

Thompson stock tends to be. I have helped with the restoration of the Thompson TK at the NYMR and the vestibules are all dark stained block board. The toilet compartments were finished in Bannana yellow and Salmon pink though enough to make you ill!

In the course of a conversation with Roland Ruffell a couple of hours ago I asked him about the date of the filming. He confirmed that it was shot in 1954.

lead_plug wrote:In the course of a conversation with Roland Ruffell a couple of hours ago I asked him about the date of the filming. He confirmed that it was shot in 1954.

Thanks, that's very helpful.

While some of the footage of the BTC film on The Elizabethan may have been shot in 1954 some must also have been shot in 1953, as 60017 'Silver Fox', the 'star of the show' was one of the King's Cross nominated engines for the service in 1953, but did not appear on the train at all in 1954. By the summer of 1954 60017's mileage was taking it up towards its next general repair

19/06/53 it came out, 29/09/54 it went back in, when it came out in 53 the long guard irons were removed.

But is it Silver Fox all the way, sure the exterior shots were but not necesary the interior shots, and some of them in the coaches might not be with an A4 at the helm, and certainly not in the works!!

The film does show other locos and stock as has already been pointed out in this thread, but much of the exterior footage is of 60017 and 1953 was the year when the train became The Elizabethan which, being the Coronation year as well as marking the re-christening of the non-stop, probably had much to do with the original idea behind the production of the film. Films and TV programmes are often released many, months after actual filming took place, with the need for editing, dubbing, production etc.