The LNER Encyclopedia

Hi all,

I hope that I've put this in the right place..

I read some years back in an issue of the Railway Magazine (cant remember the issue, if anyone can help with this, that would be great), in the section where readers send in their letters, that in the early 60s a GWR 28xx ended up in the Lea Valley.

The writer of this letter said that it had worked to Ripple Lane on an oil train from the WR, then somehow found its way to Stratford. It then got 'pinched' by mistake and put on a Temple Mills to Whitemoor freight. It apparently got as far as Harlow before it was stopped as out of gauge.

I did put this up on another forum some time ago and got shot down in flames by one member of that group. Was wondering if anyone had also seen this in that magazine or could help me find it (I think it was in an issue between 2010-2019) as I have since had a clear out, so no longer have it.

If this is true, I do have a theory as to how it got to Harlow, but I wont say anything yet until I know I wasn't seeing things!

Thanks
Stu

An ex-GWR 28xx 2-8-0 may have reached Harlow Town?. Amazing!. I wonder if it had an original 1900s Churchward cutaway cab or more likely by the early 1960s a Collett 1930s type cab with side windows or what the GWR claimed with a straight voice a "luxury cab" for both the driver and fireman?. I presume it was a GE loco crew that was driving and firing the thing so with it being a GWR loco and being a right-hand driven loco that must have been a strange experience for the GE driver plus the firing may have been different for the fireman I presume from what the GE fireman was used to when shoveling coal out the tender and swinging a 'spoonful' into the firebox hole?.

Needs a photograph. A GW Pannier was tried out LS - Hertford, and there's a couple of pctures to prove it. The interest in a 28xx well off it's home beat would have been significant.

Hatfield Shed wrote: ↑Wed Jun 01, 2022 11:21 am Needs a photograph. A GW Pannier was tried out LS - Hertford, and there's a couple of pctures to prove it. The interest in a 28xx well off it's home beat would have been significant.

Yes I think ive seen some of those photos if you mean the 94xx no 9401 that was trialed at Stratford in 1957? From what I had been told, it only ever was at Spitalfields (also the only 2 photos I have seen are there). If it had got to Hertford, that would of been something!

But I agree, photos would be best.

Stu

A GWR Hawksworth 94xx pannier tank working as the 'station pilot' at Hertford East in 1957 which was and largely still is a small terminal station on a backwater branch line deep inside Eastern Region territory is quite interesting?. Maybe Stratford locos allocation of ex GER 0-6-0 tanks were all clapped out by 1957?. A lot of the Hawksworth 94xx panniers were less than 10 years old by 1957.

Well the Hawksworth design final batchs# 94xx &3400-3409 were built between 1954-1957 & the last 57/87xx class in 1956,they just didnt know when to stop @ Swindon buying&building, being an expensive mistake all round, but sometimes governments of the day had a say in the process,I saw the 94xx @ Bishopsgate/Spitalfields? sidings a few times,it was unloved by the (30A) crews even if a v.powerful loco, I think because of the type of reverser? it made shunting a real chore,surprised if it got any further than East London,Mickey the J67/69 still had a few years after'57 &like the J15's were liked by crews & work for them could still be found,now the 28XX loco that got lost, I remember it being reported in a "TI"issue of the time & the Harlow statement rang a bell think it got to Burnt Mill? possibly a goods yard there?jj

Additional to the above relating to the 94xx event, from the well known RNH 'Dick' Hardy's time on the GE, documented with a photo of 9401 at Spitalfields alongside 68596 in 1957. "We tried her (9401) on the Hertfords, she ... carried insufficient water", so instead was used for shunting, local goods and ECS workings.

The continued building of steam shunting locomotives well past the date when it was obvious that the 350hp unit in particular was a success and offered great economy, and the railway as a whole possessed vast numbers of steam shunting locos either at or heading toward the breaker's yards almost passes belief. Not that this was the worst of the excesses of BR...

Looks wise I always prefer the Collett 57xx panniers with the round 'porthole' cab lookouts as opposed to the larger cab lookouts that a lot of the 57xx class had also I prefer the 57xx class overall to the Hawksworth 94xx panniers but that is just a personal choice.

Maybe we will now discover that a J50 was spotted shunting 'Reading goods yard' 35 miles from Paddington on the Western Region after being 'borrowed' one dark and foggy night when nobody was looking by a Western loco crew from Hornsey shed to get back home on??.

Hatfield Shed wrote: ↑Thu Jun 02, 2022 1:46 pm Additional to the above relating to the 94xx event, from the well known RNH 'Dick' Hardy's time on the GE, documented with a photo of 9401 at Spitalfields alongside 68596 in 1957. "We tried her (9401) on the Hertfords, she ... carried insufficient water", so instead was used for shunting, local goods and ECS workings.

I've seen a similar photo with it next to a B12 at Spitalfields, this being in one of the 'BRILL' Annuals about 1957. From Wikipedia, I found that the 94xx had a water capacity of 1300 gallons, so not that surprising. My first thought is that he ment the Hertford goods turns, as I guessed that they would of had the same water capacity as an N7, but wikipidea says they had 1600 gallons, so that shoots down that idea!

rockinjohn wrote: ↑Thu Jun 02, 2022 12:56 pm Well the Hawksworth design final batchs# 94xx &3400-3409 were built between 1954-1957 & the last 57/87xx class in 1956,they just didnt know when to stop @ Swindon buying&building, being an expensive mistake all round, but sometimes governments of the day had a say in the process,I saw the 94xx @ Bishopsgate/Spitalfields? sidings a few times,it was unloved by the (30A) crews even if a v.powerful loco, I think because of the type of reverser? it made shunting a real chore,surprised if it got any further than East London,Mickey the J67/69 still had a few years after'57 &like the J15's were liked by crews & work for them could still be found,now the 28XX loco that got lost, I remember it being reported in a "TI"issue of the time & the Harlow statement rang a bell think it got to Burnt Mill? possibly a goods yard there?jj

Intresting that it was reported in Trains Illistrated. From what I read in the letter mentioned in my original post, it was early 60s, probably around 1961/62. Would anyone who has issues of this time be able to take a look?

Stu
.

A good place to look for that report of the stray 28xx would be the Railway Observer, if anyone has copies from that time.

Remember that the route through to Bishops Stortford, save the Lea Valley section, was electrified in 1960. With the GE Section already well-equipped with pilot scheme and early production diesels, and the mass cull of steam under way on the GE, there would be restrictions on steam under the wires.

If there were any steam-hauled movements, they were likely to be transfer freights between Whitemoor and Temple Mills.

Hi all, from reading "most" of "Dick" Hardys books,if he made the statement "we tried her on" it usually referred to a passenger working of the loco involved, also pretty sure the 34xx batch didnt carry their # plate&smokebox numbers for long(any western region experts out there?)jj

The first 10 of the Hawksworth 94xx 0-6-0 pannier tanks were built and turned out by the GWR with the remaining 200 of the class being built during the earlier years or B.R. after 1948 and on into the earlier 1950s. Like wise a certain number of the celebrated GWR 'Castles' were built during the early years of B.R. circa 1950 so weren't strictly GWR built locos. The preserved Clun Castle was built in 1950 and originally preserved for many years with it's number (7029) painted on the locos buffer beam in GWR style and with Great Western Railway on the locos tender.

BR builds weren't confined to 9400 panniers and Castles. Others were Mod Halls from 6981(49), Manors 7820-9, 0-6-0s 3218/9, Prairie tanks 4170-9 and panniers 1500-9, 1600-69, 6760-79, 7430-49 & 9662-82. The last was 3409 in Oct 56. Evening Star was built only 3 yrs 5 months later.

Kudu

As we know with the various specific diesels that the Western Region built, they stayed independent for a long time.
Not too surprising when so many of the top brass in the loco department of BR were mainly ex Swindon.

Paul

I like the GWR locos of Churchward, Collett & Hawksworth along with the sound of the GWR 'loco whistle' and the sound of the sharp 'Swindon bark' of the locos exhaust (chuff chuff) on GWR locos although driving from the right-hand side of the footplate on GWR locos is a bit odd at first after being more a customed to left-hand driving on most over railways but you get use to it over time.