The LNER Encyclopedia

Some years ago I'm sure that I recall reading of a fairly minor 1860s/'70s/'80s collision on the GNR's main line in London, but cannot now recall where, or so far find any reference to it (including in the books on the GNR by 'Grinling', 'Nock', and 'Wrottesley', or in www.railwaysarchive.co.uk).

I think I remember it as being somewhere at, or within a mile or two north of, Finsbury Park, and involving at least one passenger train.

But more certainly, fault for the collision was said to be signalman's error in forgetting the presence of a detained train, but somewhat contributed to by a station master's insistence on the signalman sending urgent messages regarding another (non-adjacent) signal box named "Reservoir" imminently becoming unmanned through another signalman not reporting for duty (or some occurrence very similar to that).

Does anyone have any recollection of reading about such an incident please ?

G'Day Gents

Reservoir box, wasn't that between Hornsey and Wood Green !!! Reservoirs being on the left of the main line.

manna

manna wrote: ↑Fri Sep 18, 2020 3:35 am G'Day Gents

Reservoir box, wasn't that between Hornsey and Wood Green !!! Reservoirs being on the left of the main line.

manna

Thanks manna. That was of course an obvious possibility, but nevertheless, as said, I've not found any positive reference to it; not even a mention of it in the Signalling Record Society's Box register.

Nothing in Rolt "Red for Danger", either.

Kudu

Thanks kudu.
No, I don't think it was sufficiently unusual, significant, or headline-grabbing to have merited inclusion in such a work.

G'Day Gents

Having second thoughts on the name and position of 'Reservoir' box, excuse the forthcoming ramble, years ago before 'Ferme Park' marshelling yard was built, the mainline, curved around as it does today between Harringay and Hornsey, BUT, on a viaduct, over a large body of water, which was a Reservoir off of the 'New River' which bought Fresh Drinking water to London, I'm kind of joining dots here ( Or grabbing straws) So a 'Early' signal box could have been in the area before redevelopment. By the way, the viaduct is still there, but buried underground, near Harringaay flyover.

manna

Thanks again manna.
That does sound like a possibly plausible explanation.

I didn't know of the river reservoir, but was aware of 'Hornsey Viaduct'.
Quite a few years ago, when it was still possible to go down underneath its arches via prominently yellow-painted manhole covers (five I think) marked "ACCESS TO BURIED ARCHES", between Hornsey Down platform and the north end of Harringay Viaduct (either in the 'wide way' between the modern day Down Fast and Slow 1, or between Slow 1 and the Reversing Sidings), someone who went down with those carrying out a routine periodical visit to check the arches' condition, took some good photos of 'below' and posted them somewhere (I forget where).

But it was subsequently reported a few years ago that the under-arch cavities had been concrete-filled, and so probably no more inspections took place.
The manhole covers became less and less obvious and it nowseems impossible to identify them from passing trains (if they're still there at all).

G'Day Gents


Funnily enough, it was on my 'Memories' thread, I do remember the pictures, but they have disappeared.

manna

manna wrote: ↑Fri Sep 18, 2020 10:55 pm Having second thoughts on the name and position of 'Reservoir' box, excuse the forthcoming ramble, years ago before 'Ferme Park' marshelling yard was built, the mainline, curved around as it does today between Harringay and Hornsey, BUT, on a viaduct, over a large body of water, which was a Reservoir off of the 'New River' which bought Fresh Drinking water to London, I'm kind of joining dots here ( Or grabbing straws) So a 'Early' signal box could have been in the area before redevelopment. By the way, the viaduct is still there, but buried underground, near Harringaay flyover.

So the main line crossed over a viaduct between Harringay (West) & Hornsey stations?. So the main line must have been a lot lower than it has been in recent decades?. From Harringay (West) station the main line climbed slightly then levelled out passing Ferme Park yards then 'dropped' down at the north end of Hornsey station on passing over the Hornsey road under bridge on the long straight slightly climbing towards Wood Green.

G'Day Gents

Hi Mickey, the line, may well have been lower, as the natural land shape drops away from the 'Hill' (with the flats on) at Harringay West, the old GN swung away from the high ground, but even then Hornsey station is still on an embankment, Hornsey carriage sidings are on a very high embankment on the 'UP' side, not so much on the 'Down'. The House's behind Hornsey shed are a lot lower, but the 'New River' is on an Embankment. So the tracks may have had to 'Climb' to reach the viaduct over the reservoir (on the Hornsey side) but the land being higher on the Harringay side, no change. years of expansion eventually buried everything.

manna

Ok manna I never knew any of that regarding the main line through Harringay (West) station and Hornsey station being built at lower level than what it has been in the last 140-150 years during the earlier days of the GNR and crossing a viaduct between Harringay & Hornsey stations which seems a bit hard to picture in my mind?. As for the New river it re-appears into the open to the east of Harringay West station and crosses under the Tottenham & Hampstead line between Harringay Park Junction & Harringay Green Lanes station which was formerly Harringay Stadium station until about the late 1980s.

I can't dispute that the main line might have originally been lower to some degree, but isn't it surely the case that the land levels on either side of the Mains, that we know around the north end of 'Harringay Viaduct' (rail) (i.e. Ferme Park Down yard, and Ferme Park Up yard/Hornsey EMU Depot), were formed by made-up ground way back in the 1860s -'80s on what was some sort of valley (however shallow it may have been), thereby surrounding the original viaduct ?

.

Going northwards from Finsbury Park station the main line is on a shallow but gradual rising gradient to beyond Harringay (West) station where it levels out slightly opposite the south end of Ferme Park Down sidings and the Harringay flyover before gradually falling going through Hornsey station until it 'drops' down in the vicinity of the Hornsey road bridge then it starts to gradually rise again on approaching and passing through Wood Green station.

That's from memory and not a gradient chart.

I suppose a not very high brick built viaduct carrying the mainline between Harringay (West) station to Hornsey station was in reality feasible.

I have a feeling I have come across Reservoir Box on the Finsbury Park - Edgware Branch branch in the very early days before Stroud Green Station opened. I will have to dig further. There is a covered reservoir near the line between Mount View Road and Mont Pleasant N.4.