The LNER Encyclopedia

Hi knowledgeable people

Am new to this forum, have an interest in Yorks / Notts / Derbys area (grew up east of Nottingham, can remember shunting at Colwick yards), GC at Victoria, GN ironstone bramches etc).

Have recently got the Chris Booth LDECR series, and a fascinating question arises from a photo (vol 1, p71) dated 2nd September 1955, of Robinson A5 4-6-2-T 69804 + 2 coaches. The caption says it is the daily train for local pupils to Chesterfield Grammar School. The train is in the former Chesterfield bound platform, which was, at this time, a stub because Bolsover tunnel was condemned and closed 3/12/51.

Obviously, before closure, the train would have gone the 9 miles through the tunnel to Chesterfield Market Place. Assuming the date is correct, what route could the train have gone?

It seems to me, being in that platform, it could only have come via Clipstone / Mansfield / Annesley / Heath to Chesterfield Central, or (shorter) via GN Leen Valley Extension to Annesley thence to Central. Both would have been a very long way round, maybe 35 miles+ and a reversal.

Any ideas?

thanks,
Howard

Is the date wrong?

I think Lawson Little wrote a piece about this train, I will try and find it.

John

JASd17 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 03, 2019 9:16 am I think Lawson Little wrote a piece about this train, I will try and find it.

John

It doesn't answer the question John, LL left school shortly before Bolsover Tunnel was closed. He only postulates what happened to the grammar school pupils and asks for any photographs of the 'school train'. [LNERS J51]

The GCRS bibliography shows this article as appearing in Steam World no 79 January 1994 if any one has a copy for reference . I'm sure there might be something in the GCRS Journal Forward as I recall reading something. Lawson predated me at the school by a good decade but the Head was the same!!
Dave

I just had a look at my WTTs for 1953 and there are no passenger services at all into Chesterfield MP and nothing leaving Shirebrook for Chesterfield nor arriving at Chesterfield Cen from that area. Nor is there anything in the Midland WTT into Chesterfield Mid.
The only thing that may be possible is a 7.55 am Sheffield Vic - Chesterfield Cen (arr. 8.46 am) and a return from Chesterfield Cen at 5.09 pm
However, these ran daily rather than school term only.

I then dug out a 1951 WTT (before Bolsover Tunnel closed) and found the 6.50 am Shirebrook-Chesterfield MP arr 7.26 am (a bit early for school!) and an 8.18 am Shirebrook-Chesterfield MP, arr 8.54 am (a little late for school?) In the evening it's 4.10 pm to Lincoln and 6.15 pm to Shirebrook. All of these are daily trains (incl. Saturday) and are not shown as dated for school term. There are several other trains during the day to Market Place but the above seem to be ones that school children might use.

Brian

Further to my earlier post, I remembered that Lawson Little submitted a piece which can be found on www.oldcestrefeldians.org.uk. Find the History page on the site and scroll down to 'Six years a train boy'. It does confirm the earlier reference that he left in 1951, but refers to 'bus replacement service' when rail service was not available for various reasons, so maybe that was the schoolboy solution. I travelled the 5 miles by bus from Holmewood to Chesterfield to school on East Midland Motor Services with a free scholar's pass even though the local (former MS&L/GC/LNER) BR Heath station was open to 1963 and the Chesterfield Central station would have been a convenient alighting point. Central was also a magnet to the 'after school' railway enthusiasts. (Much of the bus route then followed the Chesterfield loop route but I don't ever recall seeing a passenger train on either end of the day's journey.)

(Only guessing that this article might be similar to the earlier published reference.)

Dave

An East Midland Motor Services timetable for 27 September 1953 probably offers the most likely answer to the school boy travel question. There was a service no 28 from Warsop to Chesterfield, calling at Langwith, Shirebrook (Market Place, Bolsover and Chesterfield. Mon - Fri the 1st service hit Shirebrook at 7.10 arriving Chesterfield 7.50 (Plenty of time to get to school and a game of footy) Second service left Shirebrook at 8.10 and arrived in Chesterfield at 8.50 (risking a late arrival for assembly!)
Return services were at 55 mins past the hour from Chesterfield then departing Shirebrook at 40mins past the hour.

Many thanks for your detailed replies WT, I am clearly stood down.

John

I promise this is my last post on this topic!

I recalled that Lawson Little had a few items published in GCRS 'Forward' magazine, and with more time today I had a quick look through issues published from 2000. In Issue 151 for March 2007 an article he had submitted on LD&ECR passenger services was published and in it he includes reference to his schoolday travels, passenger stock, motive power and the closure of Bolsover tunnel in 1951. He reported that by the time of closure passenger services from Shirebrook were restricted to the Lincoln route. These too ended on 17th September 1955 when the 4.17 left Shirebrook North for the last time.
The Forward article also footnotes the Steam World item referred to earlier.

Dave

thanks folks, didn't think I'd get any replies and expected the forum to mail me! I think from all that, the Warsop - Chesterfield bus was a replacement, so the photo date must be wrong.. Must admit it didn't occur to me about the MR Clowne - Seymour Jn route, would have been a good alternative, though missing Bolsover & Duckmanton.