The LNER Encyclopedia

New Southgate station (about 6 miles from Kings Cross) is seen on a grey rainy day sometime during the 1950s and looking north towards Cemetery signal box (not seen in the photograph) as a unidentified Gresley V2 trundles through light engine along the Up fast line heading towards the capital. Note the goods wagons standing on the Down slow line and the brake van and two box vans standing along side the wagons in the Down siding.

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Interesting photo Mickey.
There being goods vehicles on the Slow (loco-less) and in the siding suggests the siding was being 'shunted' (vehicles put off and/or picked up; the loco presumably obscured by the LE on the UF).
You may know/have seen in other photos of this era and earlier, that the road alongside the visible short loading dock was then still part of the siding (just), with the Slow road curving around it and then curving back to join it at its exit points just before passing under the high bridge: So the alignment from the siding there to the Down Slow was actually a straight run; perhaps a legacy from pre-quadrupling days. Whatever the reason, the result was quite a tortuous alignment for the DS which further necessitated the need for the 20mph Slow lines' restrictions round the outside of both island platforms.

From memory Stevie there was some track rationalisation work that took place around New Southgate and Cemetery during 1968 and I can't remember if that short Down siding road that ran adjacent to the Down slow line through the platform was still there until 1968?.

Slightly curious to note that the tall lattice post Down fast line co-acting arms home signal in the photograph (the top arm isn't seen) doesn't at least on the lower arm carry Cemetery's Down fast line outer distant signal as well considering Cemetery box wasn't that far distance beyond New Southgate station and I am guessing possibly about three quarters of a mile (or 1320 yards) distance maximum?. Both the Down fast line and Down slow line New Southgate semaphore starting signals which both carried Cemetery's semaphore distant signals beneath them were sited (at a guess?) about half a mile beyond New Southgate box (880 yards) and about a quarter of a mile (440 yards) south of Cemetery box.

Back in time to the pre-WW2 era of the late 1930s featuring the Up Flying Scotsman hauled by A4 no.4498 is seen approaching New Southgate with New Southgate's Down fast line somersault starting signal and Cemetery's corresponding Down fast line somersault distant signal mounted below it on the tall lattice post. Just about visible through the hazy atmosphere in the distance is Cemetery's Up line running signals that appear to be of the upper quadrant type.

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IIRC mickey, it was just over a mile between the two boxes (looks like Cemetery is just visible through the bridge arch).
The DF Starter in this pic looks to me to be in roughly the same place as the later tubular post UQ replacements for both roads, and they were on the box diagrams as 1,066 yards from NS, and I think, 751 yards from Cemetery - not a lot for braking, even on 1 in 200 Rising. No wonder that by c.1967, firmly in the time of full dieselisation, those colour-lights had replaced the semaphores at the end of NS platform to act as an Outer Distant for C.

I well remember the track simplifications of about 1968/9, when most of the long 'Through' (or 'ladder') crossover was abolished, leaving only the No. 51 Fast lines crossover.
But the lead into the one remaining Down siding (the 'Wallside', which ran right back parallel to the station to about 70 yards South of the box) had been moved back nearer the platform ramp some years earlier so that the DS could be realigned to give a straighter run, which then actually ran beside that (redundant) loading dock. There had apparently at one time been a second, shorter siding in the station, in between the DS and the long siding; it is referenced in a Local Instruction in the 1960 Appendix.

Yes that 1968 track rationalisation and signalling alterations at New Southgate in particular Stevie was quite extensive. From memory apart from the long crossing at the north end of New Southgate station being abolished and plain lined and the connections at the south end of the station from the Up slow to Up fast line as well as the connection from the Down fast to Down slow line also being abolished and plain lined with the corresponding semaphore signals being abolished and also from vague memory there use to be a nice medium size lattice post stop signal with a pointed top final that stood quite near and all most opposite the box coming off the Up goods line and leading into the Up slow line I recall with a ground red disc signal located at the bottom of the said lattice post signal reading from the Up goods line into the Up single siding road that ran all most parallel to the Up slow line for some distance beyond New Southgate's Up slow starting signal towards Wood Green Up Box No.2.

One other thing of note was at some date during the early/mid 1960s (I am guessing?) the Down fast & Down slow line home signals south of New Southgate box were renewed and mounted on a T-bracket white painted metal/tubular post that also carried the Down fast line home signal as well as the Down fast to Down slow line home signal and also the Down slow line home signal with both the Down fast line and Down slow line home signals having 'white sighting boards' fixed to the dolls/posts behind the signal arms. From amateur film and photographs that I have seen taken at New Southgate during the 1950s and maybe early 1960s the New Southgate Down line home signals for both the fast and slow lines appeared to be mounted on two separate signal posts with the Down fast line and Down fast to Down slow line home signals being mounted on a bracket post with a 'white sighting board' fixed behind the Down fast line home signal.

New Southgate box it's self was quite a nice looking box although slightly low down to track level and also quite narrow inside as well being located as it was at the south end of New Southgate station platforms between the Up fast and Up slow line. As mentioned a couple of times previously in the past I happened to visit the box one afternoon back in late 1972 possibly four or five months before it was finally closed (Jim Burnett was the signalman) along with Cemetery box in February 1973.

Regarding the Cemetery Down fast line distant signal up to the end of the 1930s as shown in the photograph of A4 no.4498 working the Up Flying Scotsman train approaching New Southgate and strange that Cemetery box didn't have a Down fast line 'outer distant' signal at the north end of New Southgate station mounted underneath the home signal(s) mounted on the tall co-acting arms lattice post signal?. Well yes I was thinking about the railway as it was during the diesel age of the 1960s & 70s rather than as it was during the steam days of the 1920s & 1930s anyway back in steam days I presume because the railway between New Southgate station passed Cemetery box and on through New Barnet tunnel to the north end of Oakleigh Park station was on a straight stretch of line I presume drivers of steam locomotives would have seen the Cemetery Down fast line distant signal (underneath the New Southgate Down fast line starting signal) from a good distance away when approaching it probably when they were passing through New Southgate station which may have been a distance of a quarter of a mile (440 yards) away from passing New Southgate's Down fast line starting signal with Cemetery's distant signal beneath it and plus the railway was on a rising 1-200 gradient from Wood Green through to Hawkshead on the Down lines the loco it's self may have only 'topped' 50-60mph when passing Wood Green and would then when passing through New Southgate station the driver on seeing the Cemetery Down fast line distant signal standing at 'caution' would then shut off steam and let his train roll on under the tall overbridge for a couple of hundred yards more before making the first brake application and no doubt whistling on the locos whistle for the Cemetery signalman to pull the distant signal off!!.

In diesel days when riding on a Brush type 2 (class 31) a driver told me once and I witnessed it myself if the loco had 'topped' 60mph on passing Wood Green then it wouldn't get above 60mph again until going over the summit at Hawkshead on the downward run through Brookmans Park to Marshmoor box.