The LNER Encyclopedia

CAN ANYONE CONFIRM THE STORY I HEARD MANY YEARS AGO THAT 60114 HAD A PLATE IN THE CAB STATING "THIS LOCOMOTIVE NOT TO WORK NORTH OF NEWCASTLE"

I WAS TOLD THIS WAS BECAUSE IF IT GOT INTO SCOTLAND THE NAMEPLATES DISSAPEARED, SOMETHING THAT SUPPOSEDLY HAPPENED ON MORE THAN ONE OCCASSION.

I ASKED AN EX DONCASTER FIREMAN A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO AND HE SAID IT DID HAVE THAT NOTICE.

What was the reasoning behind this. Wasnt Mr Allen an NUR official why did the scots take umbrage with him.

If I remember correctly, he was General Secretary of the ASLE&F who rose to some position of authority on the Railway Executive after nationalisation; perhaps he was perceived to have "sold out" - and presumably he was of Scottish origin?

I have his autograph in a bound set of the ASLE&F "Locomotive Journal".

I remember reading many years ago that the naming of 60114 was controversial because W P Allen was, as has been pointed out, a union official.

Apparently, it was OK to name locos after railway company directors or obscure memebrs of the nobility, but not to honour a man who represented and fought for the rights of ordinary railwaymen!

From "The Lighted Flame", A History of ASLEF, Author Norman McKillop AKA Toram Beg.

W P Allen CBE (Bill) started as a Cleaner on the GNR at Hornsey and rose through the ranks to become a Driver. he also rose through the ranks of ASLEF becoming General Secretary in 1940.

It would appear that he was held in high regard by his peers and they were proud of his achievements both in ASLEF and with the Railway Executive.

Who then were the mysterious forces behind this threat to pinch 114s nameplates!!??

Unless it was because he was highly regarded people thought that they would make a good momento (similar to the way people "claim" street signs)... There may not have been any malice behind the act at all.

Thanks for replies guys but still no confirmation that the sign was in the cab.

The story I heard was that the first time into Scotland someone nicked the plates and this happened a couple of times so they were welded on to the smoke deflectors.

The next time it went North of the border the two deflectors were taken off and dumped in the ash pit.

Whether this is true or not I do not know but the ex Donny fireman said the notice was there although I don't know how truthful he was.

I've researched W.P s name without any part saying he was a turncoat or whatever.

As well as claiming street signs, the 99 arches approaching Wakefield Westgate were all given a new number plate in the mid 70s.

I looked longingly at No 92 my house number at the time as I passed under the arches 3 or 4 times a day as a bus driver.

No 92 was gone withing a week, [not me by the way] and within a month most of the rest had dissapeared.

Regarding the plates, from what i remember my grandfather saying they were in some building in london. and my great uncle W P Allen's 2nd eldest son sold the 2nd nameplate on. no idea where it is now.

As for the plate in the cab i can't help on but i would also be interested to hear about as i'm stockpiling as much as i can about 60114.

Could be wrong on the name plate, but I think there's one in the NRM, but some of them can't be seen, due to locos in front of the workshop parking in front of them, like Empire of India for one.

Hi Chaps,

Sorry to resurrect this thread after so long, but I'm trying to research a little more on the above locomotive for my children's book. My own grandfather told me a similar tale, albeit I was led to believe it was a sign in the cab of 60500 (Edward Thompson), not W.P.Allen.

I was rather puzzled, looking up the shed allocations and some workings of 60114, that it very rarely went "over the border" compared to the other 48 Peppercorn A1s, and its normal trains were London-Leeds, Leeds-London, a spell at Doncastor for trains to York, and other similar routes.

I'd be very interested to hear if there is any truth in the above story - I wouldn't use it in my children's book, too political - but it's a strange area of fascination for me as to the mystique of this particular class member.

I did find a wonderful working I am writing a story on, involving the engine on one of its last railtours - to the Western Region, no less, and a "pranging" incident, and would appreciate if anyone could tell me a little more on the event?

60114 at Worcester

What surprised me about the above link, is that it clearly shows 60114 had orange/red nameplates at this time. I guess I will have to make some alterations to my model of "Allen"!

I took some very similar pictures of 60114 while it was stopped on Worcester shed. It was there for about 2 weeks if I remember rightly, and the GWR Castle also seen in the picture was 5054.

Flamingo wrote:I took some very similar pictures of 60114 while it was stopped on Worcester shed. It was there for about 2 weeks if I remember rightly, and the GWR Castle also seen in the picture was 5054.

Hi Flamingo - would it be possible to see a few of those pictures, please? For personal use only, of course. I want to recreate that event for the small screen, and any photographs that may aid in building the sets will pay dividends!

Two weeks? How bad a prang was it, that stopped 60114 for two weeks?

I don't think it was actually a prang in the sense of some kind of impact which caused damage. The word at the time was that the A1 had simply failed and been unable to work its return railtour. Whether that was because of a slipping incident on Worcester shed I can't say. It eventually worked back to the Eastern region on a train from Birmingham, so collision damage if any could only have been minor.

Here's another one. I looked the railtour up on Six Bells Junction, which says that 60114 failed on leaving the shed to work its return train. This was possibly due to it suffering a bent connecting rod while it was being turned on the triangle at Worcester, which is not incompatible with the other report of a slipping incident. It's easy to imagine a driver used to handling GWR locos, which hardly ever slipped, making a mess of moving an A1. It's hard to be certain, but it looks like the left hand connecing rod is not present in the above photograph. Didn't notice that at the time unfortunately.