The LNER Encyclopedia

Does anybody know the current whereabouts of the Fowler shunter used at Nabisco's Welwyn Garden City ?

I can't answer your question directly but until about 1968 the Nabisco shunter was a 0-6-0 loco then from about late 1968 or early 1969 onwards through the 1970s and beyond it was exchanged for a 0-4-0 loco i recall.

Also around the sametime that the 0-6-0 loco was exchanged for a 0-4-0 loco a small single road (white painted) loco shed appeared occupying the siding road nearest the factory wall (it was still there on a visit to WGC in 2010) at the north end of the factory. In total there were 3 sidings roads starting from the points leading from the 'long shunting neck' south of the footbridge plus there was also a single line connection leading to & from the Nabisco factory sidings & the B.R. lines of WGC yard heading around towards the Hertford branch that they would have to use to access the Up yard.

The small four coupled unit was Fowler 20337 if that helps.

Once or twice in the past i have thought of modelling the 3 road 'Shredded Wheat' sidings and the facade of the Welwyn Garden City Nabisco's factory along side?.

Then sort out a straight 8ft long base board and pick up either a 0-6-0 or 0-4-0 diesel shunter along with about 15-20 Hornby grain hopper wagons and start shunting!.

Mickey

I'm currently modelling Welwyn Garden City station, Mickey which will eventually include the Nabisco sidings. I've a long way to go still and so far have the cross overs between Hunters Bridge and the platforms in place and the scale 600ft (2.4 metre) platforms are under construction.

Gra

Thats very interesting Gra, what era are you basing the station and surrounding area on?.

You may have already read on here through various posts of mine that i was a telegraph lad at the box between July 1972-March 1974 a period that encompassed both the mechanical signalling era until September 1973 and the post colour light signalling era from September 1973 until the present day although the old WGC s/box finally closed in September 1976.

Mickey

Gra wrote:I'm currently modelling Welwyn Garden City station, Mickey which will eventually include the Nabisco sidings...

Big isn't it? For a relatively small town station, it really sprawls. (Kings Cross buffer stops to tunnel mouth can be done in much the same space.) Are you compressing it in any way, length or width? The other difficulty is with scenic breaks where the modelling ends; Hunters and Twentieth Mile bridges perhaps?

Yeah i agree Hatfield Shed but why stop at the Hunter's Road overbridge admittedly taking the layout back to the Digswell viaduct maybe 'stretching the layout a bit to far' but maybe take it back to the Digswell Rise overbridge the next bridge north of the Hunter's Road bridge?.

Getting back to the Nabisco's sidings I was trying to recall if i ever remember seeing the B.R.350hp 0-6-0 diesel shunter which was usually referred to as the 'Welwyn Pilot' by everyone at the station back in the day actually in the Nabisco factory sidings and i have a vague feeling i did see it in there on maybe one occasion but it was very rare to see it in there it would usually haul the grain hopper wagons around to the 'long shunting neck' then the Nabisco shunter would 'hook up' at the other end and haul the grain hoppers along to the factory about 300 yards away.

Mickey

FINSBURY PARK 5 wrote:Thats very interesting Gra, what era are you basing the station and surrounding area on?.

You may have already read on here through various posts of mine that i was a telegraph lad at the box between July 1972-March 1974 a period that encompassed both the mechanical signalling era until September 1973 and the post colour light signalling era from September 1973 until the present day although the old WGC s/box finally closed in September 1976.

Mickey

I am using a 1961 BR plan for reference but intend to run trains from the late 1950's up until the first year of the HST, so not one for purists. My aim is to produce a layout that is instantly recognisable as Welwyn Garden City.

I've read many of your posts on here, Mickey and they have and will prove to be most useful to me. Long may they continue!

Gra

Sounds really interesting Gra. Even though i've had a long railway career in other areas such as Kings Cross & Stratford in the 1970s and the north London line for the last 36 years i always look back to those early a couple of years at Welwyn Garden City (box) with fondness and always will do.

I am glad you found some of my post especially on Welwyn Garden City useful and i'm glad to answer any questions if i can?.

Hatfield Shed wrote:

Gra wrote:I'm currently modelling Welwyn Garden City station, Mickey which will eventually include the Nabisco sidings...

Big isn't it? For a relatively small town station, it really sprawls. (Kings Cross buffer stops to tunnel mouth can be done in much the same space.) Are you compressing it in any way, length or width? The other difficulty is with scenic breaks where the modelling ends; Hunters and Twentieth Mile bridges perhaps?

Yes it is! You spot on re the bridges. There is some compression in the pointwork between the platforms and Hunters but the platforms are a true scale 600ft long so I can accommodate trains of prototypical length. There will also be some compression between the platforms and Twentieth Mile but not too much as I want to keep the sidings as long as possible in order to fit the suburban trains that parked up there. There will also be some compression between the Hertford Branch platform and the end of the footbridge by Nabisco. The layout is viewed from the Nabisco side.

Gra

G'day Gents

I suddenly realized that we've never talked about the wheat train empties, who worked them ?? (Hitchin men??) where did they go ?? Whitemoor/Temple Mills ??

manna

Gra wrote: " .... I am using a 1961 BR plan for reference but intend to run trains from the late 1950's up until the first year of the HST, so not one for purists. My aim is to produce a layout that is instantly recognisable as Welwyn Garden City. .... "
Gra

Sounds very good Gra : Good that you recognise a possible 'purists' viewpoint, because as you no doubt know, by the time HSTs were running, the layout had changed considerably with the resignalling, including the appearance of the Down-to-Up side flyover.
But remember also that, as well as reduced/complete loss of traffic on the two branches during 'your' period, there was the considerable impact on usage and/or lifting of the two outer of the six tracks of the approaches from the '20th Mile' end, resulting from the 1966 'fall' of 'the Wrestlers Bridge' approx. a 1/4-mile north of Hatfield station.

I think 'the wheat empties' may have gone to Whitemoor manna because from memory there use to be a northbound class 7 partially fitted goods (1-2-2 bell) leave WGC Up yard that had to perform a 'W' shunt onto the Hertford branch then propel back into the Up slow plaform before departing 'right way' along the Down main line towards Welwyn North sometime between 7:00-7:30pm on a weekday evening this train also had other vehicles in the consist like bogie bolsters, mineral wagons & box vans with a brake van bringing up the rear and yes i believe it was worked by Hitchin men.

I guess space is limited Gra but it's a pity you can't include the running lines north of the Hunter's Road overbridge towards the Digswell Rise overbridge (the next bridge down road) because you could then replicate the 'main line shunt' moves of propelling terminating trains from the Down main line back into the Up slow line platform.

Mickey

PS Anychance of a 'play on it' when it's finished it would be like a walk down memory lane for me...