The LNER Encyclopedia

Does anyone have information on the days of the week that the Queen of Scots Pullman ran in the early 1960's, and also the timetable. I'm particularly interested in the time the train left Glasgow Queen Street and arrived at London Kings Cross.

From the Summer 1963 Carriage Workings, leaving Glasgow Mon-Sat at 11.00 a.m. arriving KX 7.45 p.m.

Thank you for this information. I witnessed the Queen of Scots leaving Glasgow Queen Street Station on three separate occasions and thought the departure time was 11.00am but was unsure. The locomotives were 60031 Golden Plover, 60004 William Whitelaw, and 60041 Salmon Trout, in order of appearance. I think they were all allocated to Haymarket Shed. Would they have come through from Edinburgh on the morning of departure or have been temporally assigned to Eastfield while working out of Glasgow?

I think that the answer to your question about the locomotives could probably be answered by knowing the roster for the previous day/early morning. Any forum members with interest, knowledge and information in the Scottish A4s?

According to Yeadon, "By 1961, the overall times had been eased by 20 minutes (c.f. the 1952 timings), the Down Train taking from 11:50 a.m. to 9.10 p.m. and the Up left Glasgow at 11.00 a.m. and was due in at KingsX at 8.20 p.m.... The Service ceased to run after Saturday 13th Juner 1964."

GeoffBird wrote:According to Yeadon, "By 1961, the overall times had been eased by 20 minutes (c.f. the 1952 timings), the Down Train taking from 11:50 a.m. to 9.10 p.m. and the Up left Glasgow at 11.00 a.m. and was due in at KingsX at 8.20 p.m.... The Service ceased to run after Saturday 13th Juner 1964."

In the 1960-61 Winter carriage working 8.20 p.m. is the KX arrival time given, but it was either accelerated again or the Summer timing was different for in 1963 the official (i.e. not Yeadon) arrival time was as I stated, 7.45 p.m.

Presumably Mon - Sat because the Harrogate Sunday Pullman used the stovk on Sundays. On the Internet Website under "QofS" there is a BR Handbill stating "Weekdays - Bank Holidays excepted. Departure from Glasgow is 10:50 a.m. and Arrival at the Cross is 8.05 p.m. Unfortunately undtaed.

'Bank Holidays Excepted' is more than likely for the 1963 Summer carriage working states 'Except 5th August' - presumably that was the Bank Holiday Monday that year.

Harry Knox shows the late 1950s link structure in his book Steam Days at Haymarket. For a fortnight Turn 7 in Link 1 covered the 7.30 Edinburgh-Glasgow and the 11.00 Glasgow - Edinburgh with one driver while the second driver covered Turn 8, the 16.15 Edinburgh-Dundee and the 20.35 Dundee-Edinburgh. The early shift driver swopped with the late shift driver for the second week before, after two weeks, they both moved down the roster on to what was known as the Early Aberdeen, 03.57 from Edinburgh to Dundee and 05.47 Aberdeen from Dundee -Edinburgh while the late man covered the 14.15 Edinburgh - Dundee and the 15.40 Aberdeen from Dundee - Edinburgh for a further two weeks of early and lates and so on through the 14 turns in the Link. These were all booked for seven A4s.

65447 wrote:'Bank Holidays Excepted' is more than likely for the 1963 Summer carriage working states 'Except 5th August' - presumably that was the Bank Holiday Monday that year.

The 5th August 1963 was indeed Bank Holiday Monday and on that day I would have been on Porthminster Beach, St Ives. Things you remember.

This website may be of interest to anyone on here.
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/easter/

Thank you for all this interesting information. It now appears that the A4's and probably the A3 that I saw taking out the Queen of Scots would have come through earlier that morning, bringing the 7.30am from Waverley. Now the next question is whether the said locomotive would take the Queen of Scots all the way to King's Cross or whether there would be a change of loco en route and, if so, where. According to the website on David Hey's collection http://www.davidheyscollection.com/page39.htm ,locomotives for the train were provided by Haymarket, Heaton, Neville Hill and Copley Hill sheds. I wonder how many change overs occurred. There would certainly be a change of crew. I believe the Q of S stopped at Edinburgh, Newcastle-upon-Tyne, Darlington, Harrogate, and Leeds.

Again, according to Yeadon " from Edinburgh as far as Newcastle the responsibility for the train was Haymarket's and an A4 was their usual Provision...The two Leeds sheds worked both Trains south of Newcastle, Neveille Hill between there and Leeds (Central) where there was a reversal of course, whilst Copley Hill dealt with the Leeds to London Section" A1's were the normal choice from both sheds, although there are several Pictures of A3's also being used. In case of a failure of the Neville Hill loco, Heaton ususally turned out one of its A1's for the Job. No details there about the loco between Glasgow and Edinburgh, but an interesting photo of an Eastfield B1 arriving at Waverley with the Train from Glasgow. Was ther Train strengthened at Edinburgh?

To help with locos working the service, "Coupe News" might be of use. Each issue has a review of the ECML Pullman workings in blocks of years, the 2010 issues include 1960's workings. The information is supplied by Tommy Knox from his archive. The link for Coupe news is here:- http://www.semgonline.com/coach/coupe/

Steve

I have found a copy of the Scottish region public timetable for 1959 ( i think) in the preface at the front there is the timetable and fares for the Queen of Scots
If anyone wants a scan, i will get it down next time i am in the loft!

Thank you for your help. Does your 1959 timetable show the same up departure and arrival times for the Queen of Scots as the Summer 1963 workings, namely that the train left Glasgow Queen Street at 11.00am Mon-Sat and arrived at King's Cross at 7.45pm?