Kings Coss Passenger Loco

[StevieG]

" Deltics were handsome engines but to work with them at Kings Cross was not so much fun, the fumes were the foulest of all diesels and we copped it truly in the box at times. My worst time with them was to catch the 1800 "off the bank" (platform 16) at the end of a twelve-hour shift on a hot summers day with the windows of the non-corridor stock naturally wide open. If that and the 1800 Newcastle out of 8 were bang on time (which they usually were) we shared Gas Works Tunnel tunnel and I'm quite surprised anybody was still alive when we came out the other end. It was not fun, and I could identify that unique smell today. .... " John

Think I may have writted this before, quite a while ago, but ....
A related enduring memory of mine from the early 1970s is, when travelling into the Cross on a summer's day en route to a late shift ; sitting in the front coach of a Cravens unit on a 'local', driver's blinds up, stopped on the Up Relief at Belle Isle (KC84 signal), umpteen windows open along the coach, 'waiting for the road' to go in and straight over to the suburban side.
As soon as the drone of an approaching Deltic was heard emanating from Gasworks with an express on Down Main 1, you instantly realised who the regular passengers were, as we all leapt to our feet, closing all the sliding ventilation and door drop-light windows we could get to as fast as possible, hoping to succeed before the 55 actually went by, and knowing what it would be like inside the tunnel when we moved off into the same bore a minute later.
So then, when double yellow came up, usually with a 'D' route indication, off we went - into total blackness, with the smell even then still invading the coach to some extent.
Only when we were about 30-50 yards from emerging at the station end did the blackness start changing to deep brown, then a sort of orange, then ochre perhaps, and then, still in the last few yards of the tunnel as we started turning right on No.154 points therein, sunlight started being quite quickly restored until within feet beyond exiting the tunnel mouth, all was brightly normal again (except perhaps the smell).
For me, unforgettable.

[Mickey]

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[sandwhich]

Yes i remember the equalising vacuum brakes quite well, when applying the brakes both needles went down, strange feeling, they did not last too long they went when dual brakes were being fitted to the 31s. When these dual brakes were first fitted they were a nightmare when using the vacuum side. I remember on the shunt at the cross when they first came in you created a brake, the air brake side took about 30 secs to create and if you needed the vacuum side it could take up to a minute more, for a while everybody thought that drivers were being awkward, even fitters came over from the pass loco in the first few days because we thought that something was wrong with the brakes, there wasnt, there were some delays to train departures because of the length of time it took to do some shunts with vacuum stock, eventually modifications were made to these locos so that the vacuum was created a bit quicker.

[Mickey]

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[kudu]

Leading on from manna's previous post about KINGS CROSS being interesting heres some other London Terminals around 1970 that were worth visiting from a 'spotters' point of view.

LIVERPOOL STREET was a bit 'cramped' but was interesting from a spotter's point of view if you spent most of your time on the Kings Cross area of the ECML cos there were lots of class 31s & 37s that you never saw on the G.N. section of the E.R. at LIVERPOOL STREET at this time

st PANCRAS was ok if you was into class 45 Peaks although there was usually a few class 25s Birmingham Sulzers employed on ECS workings at the station as well as the 'ubiquitous' Rolls Royce DMUs otherwise it was usually abit quiet for a lot of the time.

EUSTON was a good place for spotting around 1970/71 for class 85s & 86s as well as EMUs, i liked that place a lot back then

MARYLEBONE was only good for Rolls Royce DMUs for 98% of the time unless you wanted to see the Aylesbury newspaper train hauled by a class 25 depart MARYLEBONE at 4:am?

PADDINGTON was a 'great place' for spotting around 1970 loads of 'multi-coloured' diesel-hydraulics such as the WESTERNS, WARSHIPS, HYMECKS as well as the western region allocated BRUSH TYPE 4s the 1600 series and DMUs. PADDINGTON was a complete contrast to KINGS CROSS you could see trains arriving & departing from a long way off

WATERLOO was ok mainly for S.R. EMUs as well as some class 33s & 73s that occasionally visited the station as well as seeing some W.R. WARSHIPS that were using the station around 1970 as well

I confess I can't fully share your enthusiasms here, Micky, as you describe varieties of boxes on wheels. I prefer kettles on wheels myself.

For me I would place King's Cross in first place among the London termini, but this preference is influenced by my home location which gave me access to the Euston and Paddington main lines, so I rarely watched trains a these termini though I travelled the Willesden Junct-Euston line countless times. (I wrote about my home scene in "A Place by the Railway" a while back.)

The great thing about King's Cross was the variety of locos, and the hope of seeing a rare Haymarket or Heaton Pacific. (Canal, Tay Bridge and Ferryhill pacifics never appeared, of course.)

Next door St Pancras was quieter, and I would always call in en route to and from King's Cross. Given that Holbeck Scots never appeared (though their Jubilees did) the main interest in my day was the 2P 4-4-0 pilots on many of the trains.

Liverpool Street had great character as a station but offered no convenient platform end to view operations, forcing us to congregate at the bottom of the taxi rank. Apart from the suburban workings, it was also a bit quiet and didn't offer much variety in loco types or sheds. I often travelled out to Stratford instead to see some freights.

I'm surprised anyone would take Marylebone seriously, as it was so quiet. Besides, I had the easy option of a stroll to Neasden shed instead on a Sunday.

I used to go to Waterloo a bit as well, but there weren't so many steam locos to see. If you were lucky there would be an unusual Arthur or H15. But it was more worthwhile to try bunking Nine Elms instead, especially as Stewarts Lane was nearby, which you could also get round if you waited for a loco to enter the shed on a road where you could hide behind it. (Bricklayers Arms was impossible without a permit, btw.)

Anyone for Fenchurch Street?

Kudu

[kudu]

G'Day Gents

Hi Kudu, KX might have been very complex, but it was very cramped, and there was plenty of conflicting movements, but to me that was the essence of KX and made it so interesting, there might have been six roads but there could be four movements going on at any one time, 1, train into York Road, 2, main line arrival (up relief, I think) center tunnel, 3, Light engine movement, sitting in center tunnel (M2 ?) awaiting signal to pass loco, 4, DMU, on down slow (departing)

What an interesting place to work.

I'm sure it was, manna. It was interesting to watch, too, especially in steam days. But the cramped space if anything made it still more desirable to arrange the approach tracks in a more efficient manner that would have reduced the conflicts. It seems an odd decision made by the GN when the second tunnels were added in 1877-8.

Kudu

[Mickey]

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[Blink Bonny]

Ay up!

When heavy and unexpected inveatment comes, its a sure sign that a bean counter somehere is planning to spend a million to save a tenner.

Cynical? Me?

[manna]

G'Day Gents

If they have extended on to the trackbed of the 'Up Moorgate line' then there's very little chance of the up main tunnels being reopened, unless someone wants to open a mushroom farm, that's close to 'Central London' the sorting shed could be built on the site of the passenger loco, see problem solved

And we all know what mushrooms like to grow in !

manna

[StevieG]

The original protruding single-storey part of the building (part of the relay room for the signalling's relay interlocking) stopped short of the old line of York Road platform's edge.

All that's been done (although hardly in a matching style) is that this has been built on above, extending out to that same building line up to second floor level.
The operating floor is thus now larger, and I believe the new part accommodates the First Capital Connect 'Control' staff and the co-ordinator of the out-stations' train indicators, auto-announcing systems, and possibly CCTVs (where provided), for (I think) the whole area (not KX itself I suspect).

[cambois]

Micky

I have the same memory of an EE Type 4 on the Aberdeen fish passing Drem in the evening sometime in Feb 1975, with flames shooting out of the exhaust. As you say they went feet into the air. All ready to send 6 bells, but the resident signalman put me right. The effect was heightened by a power cut over a wide area, with the only light being an oil lamp and the red glow from dropped track indications - picking up from a signal stop was the cause of the full power on the EE4.

You just do not forget experiences like that.

I presume this was not an uncommon condition!

[Mickey]

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[Blink Bonny]

Ay up!

Many years ago, a failure on a Trans Pennine express brought a Type 4 to Liverpool. The driver had been to the Ayrton Senna School of Motoring and tried to throw the throttle wide open at rest. Overload! Again. Same result! He then cracked it open to notch 2, got it moving, THEN opened it full. The noise was incredible, blue flames shooting from the exhausts but suprisingly little smoke. However, more worrying were the yellow sparks flying from the radiator fan!

It was crowded with football "fans" so was crawling with police. So window hanging brought a gentleman in blue quickly. Still, I did see the fireworks leaving Leeds, Dewsbury and Huddersfield. He didn't shut the throttle until Batley! It was normal to coast from Morley tunnel.....

[Mickey]

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[manna]

G'Day Gents

BB That's how I used to drive the 40's about in the passenger loco ! just crack the throttle a tad then open wide, tremendous noise (especially at 3am or at 3pm ) but as soon as you hit 5mph, shut the controller, and roll, the 40's wouldn't move until you had the controller half open, you'd just keep giving it another notch and nothing would happen, so it was a lot quicker to give it the lot, to get it going, Deltics were another class that had to driven like that, but you kept your left hand on the loco brake, just in case

manna