KX train diagrams in the 1970s.

[Dave Cockle]

I can clearly remember travelling out of Moorgate on a GN Inner Suburban train hauled by a Baby Deltic around 1968.

I travelled in the leading coach and the exhaust fumes in the Hotel Curve Tunnel were so strong that I had to push up the drop light
windows.

I believe the use of Baby Deltics over the City Widened Lines was very much a last resort .

[strang steel]

4S04 was certainly a regular freight service in the 1960s. It used to pass north through Grantham at about 4p.m. and had a variety of motive power, although quite often a class 46.

I saw a Deltic on the train once, and class 40s were regular performers although the first 120 or so did not have headcode boxes so I am just making an educated guess that a down fitted freight at that time of day would be it.

Possibly there was some fault with that particular Deltic that day resulting in it being restricted to freight work only? Certainly by the late 1960s/early 1970s they were virtually prohibited on freights, including liner trains, unless special dispensation was first obtained from the relevant Regional HQ Officer at York - the name Tom Jackson seems to come to mind.

I suppose there could have been, but I have looked on Napier Chronicles and there is no indication that it spent any time in Donny Works soon after that date (10th April 1967).
And the interesting thing is that about 15 minutes after I had seen D9019 on 4S04, D9017 passed north light engine and did subsequently spend just over 2 weeks in the works.

If there was a problem with D9019 I would have thought the two would have been coupled together for the journey, unless there was a severe motive power shortage.

I know that at the time, no one believed me when I said I saw a Deltic on freight and another l/e on the same afternoon, but I was somewhat heartened to see another Deltic on a fully fitted freight at Darlington on the Marsden Rail video of the same name. I have stepped through the sequence frame by frame, and although the headcode is not completely clear, it certainly looks like 4S04.

[Hermit 109]

Hello Stevie G, it's possible that the diagrams I posted were 1968 duties (undated). I've just unearthed a copy dated 1969 and the 14.30 ex King's Cross Goods is contained in the following diagram with the headcode 6S64:

551 dia. Pass Loco 14.00 L.E
K.X Goods 14.30 6S64
16.40 Westwood
Relieved by PE 489
Mobilise Engine
N. England 18.02 6O52
21.02 Fins Pk No6
Relieved by S.R crew

Unfortunately my personal copy of the diagrams at this time omitted the type of loco because I'm assuming that 6O52 was the Cement train which was normally worked by a Crompton 33, but I have no recollection of working this train & I don't think KX drivers had a conversion course on 33's and I don't think the S.R men worked any other type. Perhaps someone out there can enlighten me

[StevieG]

Hermit,
I can't put a year(s) on this one of the 6S64 loco-types, but I know at some time (as I think was briefly mentioned earlier) it was an EE Type 4 / Cl.40 turn, as born out by a photo or two by a certain Driver of the times, JH (not sure about his view on 'publicity'), later instructor/inspector/drivers' manager, leaning from the cab of central headcode panelled, Rail Blue 40192 displaying "6S64", at the head of the train in KX Goods Yard with only a uniform line of vans visible stretching back into one of 'KG's sheds, looking Like just prior to departure.

[ Another of his depicts a fellow class member showing "6O31" at the head of a complete up train of cement wagons (mix of 4-wheelers and twin-tank bogies), on the Up Fast just north of Three Counties bridge : From the slight shadows, I'd estimate at about 14:00-15:00.]

Also, thanks to Micky and John for the various extra, confirming, and correcting info. re arrangements at the Dalston junctions, from which I have now re-edited my earlier post to correct errors and uncertainties where possible.
I think I got the Western Junction - Poplar line direction wrong by making a presumption after believing I've read that the Broad Street / Poplar passenger service was regarded as 'Up' to Broad St., ignoring the original purpose/'direction' of the E&WID&BJR east of Western Jn.

[Hermit 109]

Hi StevieG, the 14.30 ex K.X Goods was designated 4S04 up to April 1969 after which it became a class 6 freight 6S64. I checked through my logs of the time and found that I only worked 6S64 on one occasion on 23rd June '69 after which I moved up into 2 link and had no further involvement.
The loco on 6S64 on that date was D357 and on the return working 6O52 (which I assume was the Bathgate Cement train) the loco was D1102, but I have no record if we were relieved by S.R crew at Fins Pk. No 6. At that time S.R crews would not have been familiar with class 47's. Somewhere in my photograph collection, I'm sure I took a picture running into P'boro from the south showing a S.R class 33 waiting to cross out from the up goods, I'll try & locate it.

There was another strange working during 1970/71, a train named "The Highwayman" ran from Finsbury Park to Newcastle via Sunderland daily during the summer months. It was advertised at a cheap bargain fare and left Finsbury Park as 2N45 at 09.25. The allocated motive power was a class 40 and K.X No 2 link worked the train to Doncaster where we changed crews at 12.01 (and that was non-stop). We then worked the equivalent up working which left Doncaster at 12.20 (2A55), again a class 40, and dawdled non-stop to Fins Pk arr 15.12 where the train terminated. This train ran during 1970 & 1971 to my knowledge and always with a class 40.

[Mickey]

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[Hermit 109]

Hi StevieG & Micky, found the picture showing S.R "Crompton" at P'boro, I think N.England crews were trained on them. Apologies for the quality of the picture, not always easy to get pin sharp on the move.

[Mickey]

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[Andy W]

Great picture Hermit, just how I like to remember P'boro North.

Micky - the "blue" train you are refering to was the mid 1980's "Nightrider", a short lived (on the ECML, at least) night train consisting entirely of seated stock, mainly ex LM Mk2e FO vehicles. If you put 47401-20 on them it got electrically "interesting"!

Returning to D9019 on 4S04, I think the appearance of a Deltic on this train had more to do with balancing the fleet for that night or the following day and therefore the need to get one north in reasonably short order without having to use another crew to do it. If there were too many passenger engines at the KX end fast fitteds used to be a good way of getting rid of them quickly.

KX usually sent locos to Doncaster Works LE if there were crews about and there was no need to put it on a train so I'm not surprised D9017 was going solo. If you did need to put one on a train in my time (the late 1970's) the stock trains or the first down Scots train (the 05.50 Aberdeen) were the favourites. The replacement engine would be ready at Donny to take over. An alternative was to re-power at P'Boro and go LE forward to Plant.

[Mickey]

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[Hermit 109]

Hi Micky, Yup I've got a picture of P'boro North box on the same set of slides, taken from the cab, running into the station from the North. Also a shot of Belle Isle (bit burred) after emerging from Gasworks, Arlesey box from both directions, Retford North, and quite a few more cab shots, although not specifically including signal boxes. Just north of Holme there is a minor road crossing, it used to be manually operated by a crossing keeper and his family who would always acknowledge us as we passed by. The crossing is still there but the crossing keepers house is long gone, I have a picture. Also a bit further north of all the old brickworks at Yaxley, some at Offord before the river was diverted & so on. If you want I can post them, but this is probably not the right thread.
Incidently, I came across a picture showing Ganwick box in a book by O.S.Nock, which I think is a rarity.

[Mickey]

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[Hermit 109]

O.K Micky, I'll start a new topic on Photographs, but I have to scan them onto the computer then reduce the image size, so it won't be a quick job. I've just started to digitalise my old black and white steam negatives. I took them before I started on the job and of course I couldn't afford a decent camera, so they were all taken on a kodak on 120 film. Some of the negs have suffered over the years, hence the reason to preserve as many as possible. I attach one that I know you will recognise immediately.

[Mickey]

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[rob237]

...Just north of Holme there is a minor road crossing, it used to be manually operated by a crossing keeper and his family who would always acknowledge us as we passed by...

That would seem to be the infamous "Queenie's Crossing", so named because in the 30's it was kept by a notoriously cantankerous lady - who was regularly in dispute with officialdom, over various issues arising from her duties.
Even suggested that her 'difficult' nature was such that, on more than one occasion, her intentional slow gate closure saw several 30's speed trials thwarted

Would be delighted to see the other cab photo's that you list...particularly Retford!

Cheers
Robt P.