To all interested.
Update on Nabisco shunter , (The Shredded Wheat), the loco is now completely stripped down to the frames, all rust removed, new steel cut and supplied, Maclaren engine, being completely rebuilt from ground up. Painting of restored parts complete, and reassembly started, there was much damage to the brake rodding, wheels and brake blocks and one coupling rod was severely bent. Understand that the loco was regularly derailed, although the bent coupling rod was caused by a collision with the brake block as these appeared to be too wide for the wheels. All this has been corrected. Progress is good.
Neal
nabisco shunter Welwyn Garden city.
Moderators: 52D, Tom F, Rlangham, Atlantic 3279, Blink Bonny, Saint Johnstoun, richard
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Mickey
Re: nabisco shunter Welwyn Garden city.
If you are referring to the 0-4-0 diesel shunter that was acting as the Nabisco's shunter during the 1972-74 period or maybe longer because funny that you mention about it being derailed occasionally because that triggers a vague memory of it being 'off the road' one day but that is 45 years ago. To be honest you would occasionally see it doing a bit of shunting over in the Nabisco's factory sidings behind the trees but you never took much notice of it.Neal wrote: ↑Wed Dec 12, 2018 9:45 am there was much damage to the brake rodding, wheels and brake blocks and one coupling rod was severely bent. Understand that the loco was regularly derailed, although the bent coupling rod was caused by a collision with the brake block as these appeared to be too wide for the wheels.
Re: nabisco shunter Welwyn Garden city.
Yes, this is the 040 Fowler that was supplied new to shredded wheat in 1934, with a Waukesha petrol engine, it was rebuilt by Fowler for Nabisco in 1954 with a 2 cylinder McLaren diesel engine, and different clutch. We have been told that it derailed so often that Nabisco had a permanent team on hand for rerailing it, and there is certainly much damage under the buffer beams where jacks were used. Thanks for confirming that it had been off the rails. Apparently the track at Nabisco's was mainly tram style and it doesn't need much the block the flange way. We don't know exactly when the rod got bent but we have a photo clearly showing the bent rod long before the loco was taken out of use in 1974. Both axle boxes on the same side seem to have suffered as well, as one has been welded up as a repair and the front one is a new one. Still the restoration is proceeding well, and reassembly is starting this week.
Neal
Neal
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mickfrancis
- NER Y7 0-4-0T
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2018 10:08 am
Re: nabisco shunter Welwyn Garden city.
Thanks very much for all the updates regarding the restoration. I belong to a railway FB page which is very interested in news regarding the loco. Is there any plans regarding showing her anywhere in the future? I think she was once at a railway museum in Norfolk, which is now closed, and was also on static display at Knebworth Park. Have you any other info regarding her previous movements?
Re: nabisco shunter Welwyn Garden city.
Mick.
I'LL try to answer all your questions, the shunter is currently at our residence being restored, progress is good, having stripped it virtually to the last nut and bolt, with only the gearbox left in the bare frames, it is now looking pretty with the frames all painted , the axle boxes and wheel sets fully restored and refitted (yesterday) all accessories except engine have been restored and painted and await refitting over the next few weeks. The engine (McLaren 2 cylinder diesel) is stripped and is being refurbished at this time. Only the complete cab is outstanding in terms of restoration, but this will start shortly. As to its history it was delivered new to the Shredded wheat factory in Welwyn in 1934 from Fowler's with a Waukesha petrol engine (we have a photo of it pre delivery at Fowler's still unfinished but painted with The Shredded Wheat on the cab sides). It ran until 1954 when Fowler's carried out a deep rebuild changing the engine to a McLaren diesel and putting a different clutch arrangement in. We think that the lights were converted to electric at this time also. It then remained at Nabisco's until 1974. Rail supply was finished at this time and the loco was put up for sale but didn't sell we think for about 8 years, it just languished on site in an old shed. Sometime around the 1980's it went to Wentworth and we believe that this was the last time the engine was started. It was on static display at Wentworth for a couple of years and then got transferred to the Fleggborough collection in Norfolk, again a static exhibit as they had no track. It was not looked after well and deteriorated, but was cosmetically painted a number of times in bizarre colour schemes, also carrying a Thomas face at one time. Fleggborough went into administration in the late nineties, and eventually all it'assets were auctioned off but during the interim the funnel (Copper capped and brass builders plates were removed into the workshop for safe keeping). Our friend went to the auction and although his interest lies mainly with vintage lorries was appalled to find the only bidder was a scrap merchant. Our friend bid and won the loco and placed it in store at his business in Norfolk with a view to restoring it in 2003. Move forward to September 2018 and our friend decides the time has come to do something with the loco and offers it to the Mid Suffolk Light Railway. My brother and I are volunteers there and as the Middy has very limited rail space they cannot accept anything that is unmovable, so we were asked if we would have it at our workshop to renovate it. When finished it will go to the Middy as an operational exhibit displayed in its original shredded wheat livery. Target date is to have it for this summer hopefully for the Middy's diesel day. The funnel and makers plates were lost but recently we have discovered that they were aquired by a traction engine owner and the funnel is fitted to his engine. New ones are being made! Hope that helps, the dates around the Wentworth period are a bit Woolley, but that's the best we can do at the moment. If you need more information just ask.
Regards Neal
I'LL try to answer all your questions, the shunter is currently at our residence being restored, progress is good, having stripped it virtually to the last nut and bolt, with only the gearbox left in the bare frames, it is now looking pretty with the frames all painted , the axle boxes and wheel sets fully restored and refitted (yesterday) all accessories except engine have been restored and painted and await refitting over the next few weeks. The engine (McLaren 2 cylinder diesel) is stripped and is being refurbished at this time. Only the complete cab is outstanding in terms of restoration, but this will start shortly. As to its history it was delivered new to the Shredded wheat factory in Welwyn in 1934 from Fowler's with a Waukesha petrol engine (we have a photo of it pre delivery at Fowler's still unfinished but painted with The Shredded Wheat on the cab sides). It ran until 1954 when Fowler's carried out a deep rebuild changing the engine to a McLaren diesel and putting a different clutch arrangement in. We think that the lights were converted to electric at this time also. It then remained at Nabisco's until 1974. Rail supply was finished at this time and the loco was put up for sale but didn't sell we think for about 8 years, it just languished on site in an old shed. Sometime around the 1980's it went to Wentworth and we believe that this was the last time the engine was started. It was on static display at Wentworth for a couple of years and then got transferred to the Fleggborough collection in Norfolk, again a static exhibit as they had no track. It was not looked after well and deteriorated, but was cosmetically painted a number of times in bizarre colour schemes, also carrying a Thomas face at one time. Fleggborough went into administration in the late nineties, and eventually all it'assets were auctioned off but during the interim the funnel (Copper capped and brass builders plates were removed into the workshop for safe keeping). Our friend went to the auction and although his interest lies mainly with vintage lorries was appalled to find the only bidder was a scrap merchant. Our friend bid and won the loco and placed it in store at his business in Norfolk with a view to restoring it in 2003. Move forward to September 2018 and our friend decides the time has come to do something with the loco and offers it to the Mid Suffolk Light Railway. My brother and I are volunteers there and as the Middy has very limited rail space they cannot accept anything that is unmovable, so we were asked if we would have it at our workshop to renovate it. When finished it will go to the Middy as an operational exhibit displayed in its original shredded wheat livery. Target date is to have it for this summer hopefully for the Middy's diesel day. The funnel and makers plates were lost but recently we have discovered that they were aquired by a traction engine owner and the funnel is fitted to his engine. New ones are being made! Hope that helps, the dates around the Wentworth period are a bit Woolley, but that's the best we can do at the moment. If you need more information just ask.
Regards Neal
Re: nabisco shunter Welwyn Garden city.
Mick
It's always the way, but just after I replied to your post I received an email from another aquaintance, who has a much more accurate time scale so here's the immediate update.
The loco left Fowler's in Leeds in April 1934, weighing 9 tons. Rebuilt 1954, taken over by Nabisco on 2/7/56. In 1974 rail traffic ceased and loco stored. By 1986 it had gone to the Wintergreen railway at Knebworth house (not Wentworth). It was transferred to the burgh hall bygone village at Fleggburgh on 9/3/1989. Then finally to our friend on 26/11/2004. And to us (for the Middy) November 2018.
That's a bit more accurate although there is still a little doubt around the 1974 to 1986 period. However the last time the engine ran was at Wintergreen and we believe that they siezed the engine due to water in the sump. Certainly the engine was very seriously seized up with split liners and big ends and main bearings all run out. The crank has had to be ground and the bearings re- metalled with new pistons and block, and serious work on the injection system. But all in hand with the engine going back together in the new year.
Hope that helps
Neal
It's always the way, but just after I replied to your post I received an email from another aquaintance, who has a much more accurate time scale so here's the immediate update.
The loco left Fowler's in Leeds in April 1934, weighing 9 tons. Rebuilt 1954, taken over by Nabisco on 2/7/56. In 1974 rail traffic ceased and loco stored. By 1986 it had gone to the Wintergreen railway at Knebworth house (not Wentworth). It was transferred to the burgh hall bygone village at Fleggburgh on 9/3/1989. Then finally to our friend on 26/11/2004. And to us (for the Middy) November 2018.
That's a bit more accurate although there is still a little doubt around the 1974 to 1986 period. However the last time the engine ran was at Wintergreen and we believe that they siezed the engine due to water in the sump. Certainly the engine was very seriously seized up with split liners and big ends and main bearings all run out. The crank has had to be ground and the bearings re- metalled with new pistons and block, and serious work on the injection system. But all in hand with the engine going back together in the new year.
Hope that helps
Neal
Re: nabisco shunter Welwyn Garden city.
Mick.
I'LL try to answer all your questions, the shunter is currently at our residence being restored, progress is good, having stripped it virtually to the last nut and bolt, with only the gearbox left in the bare frames, it is now looking pretty with the frames all painted , the axle boxes and wheel sets fully restored and refitted (yesterday) all accessories except engine have been restored and painted and await refitting over the next few weeks. The engine (McLaren 2 cylinder diesel) is stripped and is being refurbished at this time. Only the complete cab is outstanding in terms of restoration, but this will start shortly. As to its history it was delivered new to the Shredded wheat factory in Welwyn in April 1934 from Fowler's with a Waukesha 40hp petrol engine (we have a photo of it pre delivery at Fowler's still unfinished but painted with The Shredded Wheat on the cab sides). It ran until 1954 when Fowler's carried out a deep rebuild changing the engine to a McLaren diesel and putting a different clutch arrangement in. We think that the lights were converted to electric at this time also, and the klaxon was replaced with an electric horn. It then remained at Nabisco's until 1974. Nabisco took over on 2/7/1956. The loco was retired and parked in a shed. Sometime before July 1986 it was transferred to Knebworth park & the Winter Green Railway. It was there that the engine was believed to have last run. On 9/3/1989 the Burgh Hall bygone village, Fleggburgh aquired it for static display, until this was closed. Our friend purchased it and moved it to his works on 26/11/2004. It was not touched then until November 2018 when it was transferred to our workshop for restoring. It is planned to go to the Mid Suffolk Light Railway, for this summer restored to original livery as The Shredded Wheat, and will be fully operational. I have a friend who is trying to contact you via FB, which might be easier.
Neal
I'LL try to answer all your questions, the shunter is currently at our residence being restored, progress is good, having stripped it virtually to the last nut and bolt, with only the gearbox left in the bare frames, it is now looking pretty with the frames all painted , the axle boxes and wheel sets fully restored and refitted (yesterday) all accessories except engine have been restored and painted and await refitting over the next few weeks. The engine (McLaren 2 cylinder diesel) is stripped and is being refurbished at this time. Only the complete cab is outstanding in terms of restoration, but this will start shortly. As to its history it was delivered new to the Shredded wheat factory in Welwyn in April 1934 from Fowler's with a Waukesha 40hp petrol engine (we have a photo of it pre delivery at Fowler's still unfinished but painted with The Shredded Wheat on the cab sides). It ran until 1954 when Fowler's carried out a deep rebuild changing the engine to a McLaren diesel and putting a different clutch arrangement in. We think that the lights were converted to electric at this time also, and the klaxon was replaced with an electric horn. It then remained at Nabisco's until 1974. Nabisco took over on 2/7/1956. The loco was retired and parked in a shed. Sometime before July 1986 it was transferred to Knebworth park & the Winter Green Railway. It was there that the engine was believed to have last run. On 9/3/1989 the Burgh Hall bygone village, Fleggburgh aquired it for static display, until this was closed. Our friend purchased it and moved it to his works on 26/11/2004. It was not touched then until November 2018 when it was transferred to our workshop for restoring. It is planned to go to the Mid Suffolk Light Railway, for this summer restored to original livery as The Shredded Wheat, and will be fully operational. I have a friend who is trying to contact you via FB, which might be easier.
Neal
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mickfrancis
- NER Y7 0-4-0T
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2018 10:08 am
Re: nabisco shunter Welwyn Garden city.
Thanks a million for the info Neal. Have passed it on to the FB group.
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Mickey
Re: nabisco shunter Welwyn Garden city.
I vaguely remember seeing a 0-6-0 diesel shunter (not a class 08 B.R.350hp diesel shunter) working in the Shredded Wheat factory sidings around 1967 before it was replaced shortly thereafter by a 0-4-0 diesel shunter but that is over 50 years ago now and the memory regarding that observation is all getting a little bit vague these days?.
Just a little aside about who did the actual shunting in the Shredded Wheat factory sidings because I don't believe that the Shredded Wheat company actually employed any staff to do the actual shunting and it was given over to the two regular B.R. yard shunting staff at WGC to perform those duties in the form of Sid & Fred during the late 1960s and 1970s.
To be honest from this distance in time I can't remember if I ever saw the class 08 B.R. 350hp diesel shunter actually ever going 'into' the actual three siding roads of the Shredded Wheat factory or not?. The B.R. 350hp shunter use to take the grain wagons around to the shunting neck but I don't know if it ever would go into the actual factory sidings?. Sometimes when looking over at the Shredded Wheat factory from WGC signal box you would observe 'movements' going on behind the tree line in the factory sidings but it wasn't always easy to see what was happening?.
Just a little aside about who did the actual shunting in the Shredded Wheat factory sidings because I don't believe that the Shredded Wheat company actually employed any staff to do the actual shunting and it was given over to the two regular B.R. yard shunting staff at WGC to perform those duties in the form of Sid & Fred during the late 1960s and 1970s.
To be honest from this distance in time I can't remember if I ever saw the class 08 B.R. 350hp diesel shunter actually ever going 'into' the actual three siding roads of the Shredded Wheat factory or not?. The B.R. 350hp shunter use to take the grain wagons around to the shunting neck but I don't know if it ever would go into the actual factory sidings?. Sometimes when looking over at the Shredded Wheat factory from WGC signal box you would observe 'movements' going on behind the tree line in the factory sidings but it wasn't always easy to see what was happening?.
Re: nabisco shunter Welwyn Garden city.
All
Interesting about the drivers, we assumed that Shredded Wheat had their own, although that might have changed when Nabisco took over in 1956. During the restoration and while stripping the paint we discovered that the shunter had a different livery during its time at Welwyn. It would appear that Nabisco painted out the Shredded Wheat name and yellow lining and replaced the name with " NABISCO FOODS" on the sides of the cab, foods being centrally underneath the Nabisco name. This and the lining were now done in bright red, and as the coupling and jackshaft rods were still red, we believe that they were painted over at the same time, as they were white when they left Fowler's. It would make sense that this was all done when Nabisco took over in 1956. We have a photo when it first went to Knebworth, and the Nabisco foods had been painted out by then although the red lining and rods remained. From a modelling perspective it means there are two genuine liveries that could be used. We also wonder what the loco might have been used for during the war, possibly only at the factory, but with the shortage of locos during this period it could have ventured further afield, does anybody know of its time during 39 to 45?
Neal
Interesting about the drivers, we assumed that Shredded Wheat had their own, although that might have changed when Nabisco took over in 1956. During the restoration and while stripping the paint we discovered that the shunter had a different livery during its time at Welwyn. It would appear that Nabisco painted out the Shredded Wheat name and yellow lining and replaced the name with " NABISCO FOODS" on the sides of the cab, foods being centrally underneath the Nabisco name. This and the lining were now done in bright red, and as the coupling and jackshaft rods were still red, we believe that they were painted over at the same time, as they were white when they left Fowler's. It would make sense that this was all done when Nabisco took over in 1956. We have a photo when it first went to Knebworth, and the Nabisco foods had been painted out by then although the red lining and rods remained. From a modelling perspective it means there are two genuine liveries that could be used. We also wonder what the loco might have been used for during the war, possibly only at the factory, but with the shortage of locos during this period it could have ventured further afield, does anybody know of its time during 39 to 45?
Neal
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rockinjohn
- GER D14 4-4-0 'Claud Hamilton'
- Posts: 354
- Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:10 am
Re: nabisco shunter Welwyn Garden city.
Seem to remember in steam days at least, the 7.30pm goods ex Welwyn Garden City Yard, the loco coming up light ex KX MPD?and sometimes a northbound run for a York B16 keeping it productive.
Re: nabisco shunter Welwyn Garden city.
All
The latest update on the shredded wheat shunter (Fowler). Well it's just on finished, started the McClaren engine last week, started very easily on one cylinder! Found a faulty injector, which we replaced, engine running perfectly, tested all the transmission with the jackshafts off and all perfect, all superstructure now restored to nearly as new and finished in gloss dark green and black with red coupling rods and buffer beams. Signwriter due next week to restore the pinstriping and shredded wheat to the bodywork. We are just finishing off vacuum brakes as an addition so it can pull passengers on the mid Suffolk Light Railway. The total restoration is now days from completion after which it will go to the Middy, in time for the diesel day on 30th June. It really looks very pretty with its brand new copper capped chimney, and all brass and copper polished. Final finish is as the works photograph. It is planned to be used as a service loco on a number of Middy operating days. Visit our website MSLR (Mid Suffolk Light Railway). For full details of our seasons schedule.
Regards
Neal
The latest update on the shredded wheat shunter (Fowler). Well it's just on finished, started the McClaren engine last week, started very easily on one cylinder! Found a faulty injector, which we replaced, engine running perfectly, tested all the transmission with the jackshafts off and all perfect, all superstructure now restored to nearly as new and finished in gloss dark green and black with red coupling rods and buffer beams. Signwriter due next week to restore the pinstriping and shredded wheat to the bodywork. We are just finishing off vacuum brakes as an addition so it can pull passengers on the mid Suffolk Light Railway. The total restoration is now days from completion after which it will go to the Middy, in time for the diesel day on 30th June. It really looks very pretty with its brand new copper capped chimney, and all brass and copper polished. Final finish is as the works photograph. It is planned to be used as a service loco on a number of Middy operating days. Visit our website MSLR (Mid Suffolk Light Railway). For full details of our seasons schedule.
Regards
Neal
Re: nabisco shunter Welwyn Garden city.
Good News from the owner and from the Mid-Suffolk Light Rly. Number 1 is due to enter service soon. On the down side, getting anybody from the WGC Heritage Trust or the 2020 celebration organisers interested in the story of number 1 is proving difficult. A touch of NIMBY -ism perhaps.
Re: nabisco shunter Welwyn Garden city.
Neal, regarding the drivers of the Nabisco shunter, they were indeed Nabisco employee's. Known as the Bull Gang, these drivers also drove the road vehicles for delivery of Shredded Wheat. Maintenance was also carried out by the vehicle team.
AJB200
AJB200
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Hatfield Shed
- LNER A4 4-6-2 'Streak'
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- Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2011 3:34 pm
Re: nabisco shunter Welwyn Garden city.
As a resident in said town, possibly not wanting to call attention to the desolate wasteland of indeterminate future surrounding (the foolishly left undemolished) extemely sad and tatty original 'Shredded Wheat' factory buildings. This wasteland extends South to several more of the one time factory sites which were also rail served from the same spur that connected to the Nabisco sidings.