Welwyn Garden City

[chaz harrison]

Matters arising re: WGC

I will take some snaps the next time I go (end of the month).

From 1960 I was at school at The High School and used to cycle to and from. I remember being held up on the way back to school one lunch time at the level crossing where the Hertford branch crossed The Ridgeway. I had to wait whilst an L1 trundled a rubbish train across (You could identify the load with your nose) on its way to the tips at Cole Green.

Around about the same time I walked the Hertford branch from the Eastern side of WGC as far as Hertingfordbury. The metals were still in place but rusting. A pity I didn't have a camera.

Chaz

[StevieG]

G'Day Gents
I remember the up goods being in place in the early 70's, what always intrigued me was, about a mile south of WGC in a lowish cutting there was a break in the cutting wall, and what looked like a siding, joining the up goods, anyone know if it was a siding?
Some up to date pic's of WGC would be very welcome, thanks.
manna

The 'Up Goods' from Welwyn GC had actually become a long siding from the WGC end, presumably serving the prev.-mentioned siding 'through the cutting', plus I think another one retained, at the north part of Hatfield, the Goods line having been severed following the 20th Feb.1966 collapse of 'The Wrestlers' bridge (link http://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/docume ... 1966-2.pdf ), carrying the Great North Road (the former A1 road) over all lines at a skew angle, at Hatfield, not far south of the above-mentioned siding, and just north of where the St.Albans branch diverged from the main line. The 'demotion' of the line allowed signalling at the WGC end to be simplified, making around 9 levers spare.
The 'fallen' bridge was eventually replaced by only a footbridge.
The 'up goods' was never re-instated as a through line, with the portion south of the bridge site being re-designated as part of the up yard. This also permitted simplification of the relevant signalling equipment at Hatfield No.2 signal box, leaving around 15 levers out of use.
Only the four 'main' tracks (Fast and Slow) were quickly reinstated after the bridge incident: The Luton Single line was also never restored at the bridge site; the southern portion remained usable as a siding from Hat.No.3 box.
This meant that there was temporarily no southern access to the Luton/Dunstable branch at all.
Access was restored by provision of a new, motor-operated, Down Slow-Luton Line crossover south of WGC station, approx. at site of the present flyover's north end : The Luton line north of Wrestlers bridge to the new crossover was abandoned.

[Jingling Geordie]

Deleted

421

[chaz harrison]

Surely Hertford East is a much larger station than Cowbridge was, with much better facilities? The LNER was always strapped for cash and would not invest more money than it really needed to.
Isn't Hertford unusual for its size in that it still has two working stations?

Chaz

[Jingling Geordie]

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421

[StevieG]

...Just found out that the link in my post of 00:46-ish this morning doesn't work. I THINK I've now corrected it.

[chaz harrison]

Watto CH,
Cowbridge could have been as large for there was space available . A more southern Hertford North would have been better located. With hindsight Hertford East was an elegant luxury as a large number of commuters now far prefer the GNR line to London to the GER route. Particularly as the Hertford East Line trains went, I believe, ultimately down the Southbury loop.

I am sure you are right but the railway map of Britain was littered with mistakes, huge wastes of money and idiotic arrangements. (Why didn't the Southern railway sort out its Dorchester station?). The fact remains, the LNER inherited the GNR and GER terminii. It must have been an easy choice. The GER station had all the facilities, Cowbridge looked a very poor second. Location has never been the strongest factor - how many railway stations were miles from the town/village they were supposed to serve? Having walked from Beaulieu Road station to Beaulieu (Hampshire) you would appreciate the point. (But only on Sunday - the timetable for the rest of the week has only two down trains and one up) At least the GER had put the station in the town!

Chaz

[Jingling Geordie]

Deleted.

421

[ajax103]

Watto CH,
Cowbridge could have been as large for there was space available . A more southern Hertford North would have been better located. With hindsight Hertford East was an elegant luxury as a large number of commuters now far prefer the GNR line to London to the GER route. Particularly as the Hertford East Line trains went, I believe, ultimately down the Southbury loop.

A Broxbourne/Hertford North shuttle could have been a useful link.

421

Without taking a proper look at the diagram which I need to dig out, was Cowbridge a better location for Hertford after being renamed Hertford Central?

As to commuters now preferring the GNR route, this is very true despite complaints from the shop on the GNR station that since FCC took over, less passengers are using the station and are using the GER station.

Facts:

Hertford East in the 2006 to 2007 period saw 626,244 passengers start or finish their journeys there.
Hertford North in the 2006 to 2007 period saw 1,074,019 passengers start or finish their journeys there.

Hertford East in the 2007 to 2008 period saw 613,405 passengers start or finish their journeys there.
Hertford North in the 2007 to 2008 period saw 1,202,298 passengers start or finish their journeys there.

Fairly obviously which station is preferred even if Hertford East is more to the central of Hertford then Hertford North ever will be.

[Jingling Geordie]

Deleted.

421

[hq1hitchin]

Watto Ajax,
I found your info fascinating. Just imagine if the LNER could have diverted the Hertford East traffic and have distributed it bewtween KX suburban/widened lines and perhaps even Broad Street. It would have taken some of the strain off Liverpool St.

421

But hang on, though - surely the LNER GN section was also working to full capacity when it came to suburban traffic pre-war? I get the distinct impression that the extension of LT Underground services north of the river came as a blessed relief to all concerned. Broad St was also ram jam full in those days and not sure the LMS would have been too keen on more services.

[Jingling Geordie]

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[hq1hitchin]

I believe that the war-time closure of the North London Line's passenger services into Broad Street must have released some capacity. No attempt was made to re-introduce it after the war because it had been hit badly by bus and tram competition in the early and mid 30's.
421

Sorry, you've lost me - what are you on about?

[Jingling Geordie]

You're quite right we've wandered far from WGC.

I'll edit my offending posts.

421

[hq1hitchin]

You're quite right we've wandered far from WGC.

I'll edit my offending posts.

421

No worries JG, I'm just interested in what you're saying as I worked at all the places mentioned.