Kings Cross suburban services before 1976/1978

[sandwhich]

Can anybody remember these services before the above dates, during the 1960s the services consisted of loco hauled Gresley Quad-art sets or what we would now call stack,pack & rack, these were withdrawn I beleive about 1968, there were also the standard sets which were then five coaches and then made up to six coaches and then the 2 car cravens dmu and by the the late 60s 3 car BTU dmu sets came and were used on the outer services and of course there was the 3 car Rolls Royce units that came to replace the old Gresley loco hauled sets. The first diesel locos that replaced the ageing N2 steam tank engines were the Class 26 & the North British type 2 in 1958, they all went to Scotland by 1960 and were replaced by the Class 31 and also the Class 24, these latter had gone by 1968 (also to Scotland). The services were a real hotpotch with peak hour services to and from Moorgate, Broad Street and Kings Cross then starting and terminating at New Barnet, Potters Bar, Hatfield & Welwyn Garden City, Grange Park, Gordon Hill, Cuffley & Hertford North, The off peak services were also a bit hotchpotch until 1966 when there was a WGC service from KX calling at Finsbury Park, Oakleigh Park then all stations then the second train per hour would start at Finsbury Park and would run to Hatfield after 1966 these two trains became KX to WGC all stations.
The outer services beyond WGC were also all over the place with some terminating at Hitchin, Baldock ,Royston as well as Cambridge. The other service on the Main line consisted of a rag bag of DMU and loco hauled trains starting from Kings Cross, Hertford North, Hitchin to either Sandy, Huntingdon and Peterborough, the trains that were loco hauled were class 31, baby deltic (until 1968) and in later days Class 47. The Cambridge Buffet Expresses were 31 & 47 hauled but on occasions the class 40,46 and even the odd Deltic were used, another used for a short while was DP2.
It must be admitted that these services are much better now since electrification in 1976/78, might not be perfect but much better.

[Mickey]

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[sandwhich]

Yes Mickey it was quiet on a Sunday in those far off days, I think that then there were only 3 trains on a Sunday serving Biggleswade,Sandy,St Neots with probably Huntingdon benifiting from a couple more Inter City trains as well.
Prior to electrification to Peterborough in 1987 there were 4 loco hauled services to those stations in the morning and evening peak hours, in 2010 it was 12 emu workings within the same hours. The so called "sparks effect" as it was then known certainly made a big difference on all days of the week.

[Mickey]

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[Hatfield Shed]

Looked at in retrospect, the re-powering of the inner suburban service in the move to diesel traction tells a very interesting story. BR struggled for diesel traction to replace a pre-grouping steam loco, the much loved N2. (The only suitable alternative steam loco was the N7 come to that, and Mr Riddles didn't try to design a replacement: good job as it wouldn't have worked!)

The one bright spot in dieselisation was the use of the class 105 with a forward view if the driver was kind enough to leave the blinds up, and you could stand the vibration. Holloway bank with an out of sorts Ped pulling mk1 non-gangwayed with rusted out door bottoms on a cold February day was very dull indeed...

By comparison to which the electric interval service is first class. I had a lot of fun recently travelling with some kids on such a unit where they were able to see the acceleration rate in the water trapped between the glass in a leaking double glazed window. Don't think 'acceleration' was ever a thought that came to mind in the seventeen years of largely diesel operation.

[Mickey]

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[strang steel]

The old G.N. main line north of Hitchin was 'pretty quiet' on a Sunday back in 1970!.

You're not wrong there Micky.

During half term in Autumn 1968, I spent a long weekend in a tent by the ECML near to Stoke Summit. On the Sunday my notes show that the first train to pass after it became light was at 11:29! (Unless I dozed off and missed something).

(For the record it was D9004 on 1N07 with 13 coaches.)

[Mickey]

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[manna]

G'Day Gents

Even when I was booked on, on a Sunday I never seemed to go far, ECS to Bounds Green or Hornsey and back, Engine movements or spare, waiting for someone else to blow it in, or the main cause for working on a Sunday, Engineers work, sittings on ones backside inside a a nice warm cab, which was, in turn sitting inside one of the GN's innumerable tunnels, whilst someone else dug up the track or drilled holes in the roof of the tunnel Ahh, such is life

One Sunday, on a job at Wood Green flyover, we never moved a wheel, 7 hours, sitting on a class 40, in the middle of the day, I thought that day would never end.

manna

[Mickey]

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[strang steel]

In 1976, I made some notes of non-corridor stock on Moorgate services.

I wonder if they make any sense, because my notes are somewhat untidy and my writing is poor.

Were most of the 31 hauled trains made up of six coaches? If so, that would make a lot of sense.

I have 46122 46168 46112 43157 46165 46237

and 46087 46147 46213 43357 46102 46240

also 46127 46232 43123 46130 46131 46211

46141 43152 46244 46215 46114 46129

46220 46098 46166 46233 43159 46162

but then I have a couple of sevens, which are

46203 43046 48006 46212 43161 46249 46116

46009 46021 46099 43046 43140 48001 48012

[JeffB]

Hi Sandwich. I can remember them, I worked them, steam N2s and L1s occasional B1s, and diesel. all types ranging from D5300s, D6100s, Baby Deltics, Class 20s, 31s, 47s. Even used a Paxman once, Quad-arts, five and six coach local sets, Seven car sets on the Buffet Express. A days work in the early sixties would be a couple of Welwyn GC and a Gordon Hill, or a couple of Hertford Norths and a Hatfield. The local crew Links where then moved to Finsbury Park SOP. When we got the Cravens still doing the same local runs and one job entailed a Six unit train. Leaving the Cross after midnight, full of forces personal, splitting the formation up at Hitchin, which then went to Henlow Camp. We proceeded on to Huntingdon, full of Yanks who staggered on to RAF Alconbury. We reversed and headed back to Hitchin, picked up the other three units and went forward to Western Sidings. A big train. Oh happy days.

[robertcwp]

The last of the Quad-arts were withdrawn in 1966.

Until Moorgate Underground station was rebuilt in the mid-1960s when the line between there and Aldersgate/Barbican was realigned, the platforms used by BR trains could only accommodate five BR Mark I non-gangwayed vehicles, plus loco at each end. The rebuild increased this to six, which gave the Mark I sets more capacity. A further increase in capacity was achieved by putting one brake vehicle in the middle instead of one at each end (gaining three compartments). A six-coach Mark I set would not fit into the Hotel Curve platform at King's Cross without the loco passing the signal I believe.

The Derby/Rolls-Royce sets transferred from the GE in May 1969, allowing for withdrawal of loco-hauled peak-hour workings from the GN to Broad Street. These units had some workings to/from King's Cross but were barred from the Widened Lines due to the tighness of the curves to/from the GN.

The three Derby/BUT sets had arrived a year or so before the RR sets.