Bogies on Gresley 61'6" passenger stock

[gdb]

Being a novice in respect of Gresley coaches, I wish to know what types of bogies were used when the following diagrams were built (wheelbase / generic name / identifying features):-

D114;
D115;
D167;
D175;
D186.

What change of bogie type might have taken place with those diagrams?

regards and thank you, Graham Beare

[coachmann]

Mike Trice is the one on this, but as far as I am aware the D167 Buffet and catering vehicles/sleeping Cars had the heavyweight Gresley bogie, the rest having the 'normal'.

If I'm wrong then so are my models, as I've built most of those you mentioned.

[MikeTrice]

You are correct Coach:

D114; 8'6" standard
D115; 8'6" standard
D167; 8'6" heavy duty
D175; 8'6" standard
D186. 8'6" standard

Tried attaching photos but get error "Sorry, the board attachment quota has been reached"

[coachmann]

Tried attaching photos but get error "Sorry, the board attachment quota has been reached"

Glad I'm not the only one then. Is it a gremlin or are photo attachments out from now on?

Larry

[65447]

Graham,

I'm rather intrigued with the Diagrams you have listed, for I was under the impression that the carriages for which you are seeking information are for an ECML working hauled by a loco under construction by/for your son?

If that premise is correct, I am left wondering why you have made enquiries about Dia. 115? There's also a need for care when considering Dia. 114, in that a number of these were altered and you would, I suggest, need to avoid the running numbers used for them.

[Bill Bedford]

Mike Trice is the one on this, but as far as I am aware the D167 Buffet and catering vehicles/sleeping Cars had the heavyweight Gresley bogie, the rest having the 'normal'.

The diagram gives the journals as on D.167 as 9.5 x 4.375 and the weight as 33T. This looks very much like these coaches had standard bogies when built. They could have had heavy bogies fitted when refurbished, but unless the weight was increased substantially I don't think that was likely.

[coachmann]

They look to be heavyweight in photos Bill, probably because of the heavy kitchen equipment (page 87 'LNER Carriages' by M. Harris). Lightweight bogies were on the re-skinned Gresleys that the Southern Region knocked into Cafeteria Cars.

[gdb]

> They look to be heavyweight in photos...,
> probably because of the heavy kitchen equipment...

Please excuse this supplementary question... how does a standard bogie differ from a heavyweight bogie? That is, what are the visible differences from a modelling point of view?

thank you, Graham

[gdb]

I'm rather intrigued with the Diagrams you have listed, for I was under the impression that the carriages for which you are seeking information are for an ECML working hauled by a loco under construction by/for your son?

If that premise is correct, I am left wondering why you have made enquiries about Dia. 115? There's also a need for care when considering Dia. 114, in that a number of these were altered and you would, I suggest, need to avoid the running numbers used for them.

You are correct in that my son is building an A4 in 7mm plus a set of Gresley carriages. The engine is to be Merlin as released to traffic in June 1948, that is with the non-corridor, streamlined, tender and in the BR "purple" livery. I have been informed, in response to a question on the LNER Yahoo Group, that Merlin was working a Glasgow / Edinburgh / Aberdeen diagram in June 1948 prior to being given a corridor tender in July of that year. Although I have asked, on that group, about suitable coach formations there seems to be no firm view as to what stock was being used for those services.

As to the diagrams in my original post, the diagrams are those which are (a) available as 7mm kits and (b) likely to give a reasonable model, in a reasonable timeframe, and (c) at a price that goes with a student's budget. Hence the carriage kits come from Just Like The Real Thing (http://www.justliketherealthing.co.uk/coaches.html ). Given the diagrams which are available from JLTRT we chose those which would give a "believable" formation. Maybe we ought to have included a D113 PBV as well and possibly another non-break coach, however those we have bought are proving a challenge to get "right" (witness my questions here and on RM Web about the as-built condition of the "electric" D167 stock).

As to the second paragraph of your posting... what care do we need to exercise in regard to running numbers and any changes since building?

regards and thank you, Graham

[coachmann]

The heavyweight bogie is recognisable with its deeper 'frame' between the axleboxes. Hornby replicated this bogie on their Sleeping Car (apparently).....Mine arrived from Hattons with lightweight bogies.

[MikeTrice]

The diagram gives the journals as on D.167 as 9.5 x 4.375 and the weight as 33T. This looks very much like these coaches had standard bogies when built. They could have had heavy bogies fitted when refurbished, but unless the weight was increased substantially I don't think that was likely.

Interesting. 648 which is gas fitted has standard bogies. 24280 which is electric has heavy bogies, presumably due to the increased weight.
Both E9115E and E9116E in BR days had heavy. E1225E (D16) is interesting as it has one of each, heavy under the kitchen, standard under the saloon.

how does a standard bogie differ from a heavyweight bogie?

The centre section is deeper and there are two rows of rivets above the axle box, 3 in the top row, 4 in the bottom. Standard bogie has one row of 5 rivets.

Standard:

Heavy:

Hornby replicated this bogie on their Sleeping Car (apparently).....Mine arrived from Hattons with lightweight bogies.

From what I can see they all have the same standard bogie, however the differing rivet pattern has been replicated on the Buffet and Sleeper.

[coachmann]

Coachmann :

Hornby replicated this bogie on their Sleeping Car (apparently).....Mine arrived from Hattons with lightweight bogies.

Mike Trice :

From what I can see they all have the same standard bogie, however the differing rivet pattern has been replicated on the Buffet and Sleeper.

I go to foot of our stairs... I never spotted this. I've just had all my Gresleys off the shelves and a good many have the 2-row rivets on thier bogies. Not suprising seeing as I used bargain-price Buffet Cars as donors! Ah well.