EddieBN wrote:Mickey, where the 'new' down fast to down slow turn in at Barnet South was re-positioned to is exactly where the old down slow to up slow crossover was in the 'old days' ( taken out I think about 1963 )
There was nearly a potential nasty accident at New Barnet in 1972 involving that Down fast to Down slow line connection i think it happened straight after the commissioning of the NX panel in New Barnet North Box that replaced the earlier switch panel that had been commissioned in the autumn of 1970.
What i can remember hearing at the time was during the 'evening peak' 2 separate passenger trains were both brought to a stand at New Barnet North Box Down fast & Down slow lines 1st controlled colour light signals (situated like today just to the north of Oakleigh Park station} the Down fast line signal being a x4 aspect colour light signal with a set of left-hand 'feathers' reading for the Down fast to Down slow line 'turn in' through that connection to the south of New Barnet station and the Down slow line colour light signal standing directly opposite the Down fast line colour light signal being a x3 aspect colour light signal. Anyway both train crews of both trains that were detained at either signals both contacted the signalman in New Barnet North Box by the SPTs provided on there respective signals and both drivers or secondmen were told by the signalman that he was unable to clear either signals and for both trains to pass at danger there respective signals and to proceed at caution and obey all other signals which both trains did but unfortunately the Down fast to Down slow line connection was laying in the 'reverse' position so as the train on the Down slow line approached the Down fast to Down slow line connection the other train on the Down fast line the express was at the sametime being 'turned in' onto the Down slow line right into the direct path of the approaching slow train on the Down slow line 'a conflicting movement' had been accidently set up by the signalman in New Barnet North Box but fortunately both trains managed to stop before a collision could take place.
The trains involved?. I think the train on the Down slow line was a local train being worked by a class 31 hauling a set of 'block enders' (inner suburban non-corridor coaches) and the train on the Down fast line was an express being worked either by a Deltic or class 47 hauling a rake of B.R.Mk1s & Mk2s coaches.
EddieBN wrote:Mickey, where the 'new' down fast to down slow turn in at Barnet South was re-positioned to is exactly where the old down slow to up slow crossover was in the 'old days' ( taken out I think about 1963 )
" There was nearly a potential nasty accident at New Barnet in 1972 involving that Down fast to Down slow line connection i think it happened straight after the commissioning of the NX panel in New Barnet North Box that replaced the earlier switch panel that had been commissioned in the autumn of 1970. .... " Mickey
[See new thread "BR-Era Power Signalling: Pitfalls With Perceived Points Problems" for other instances brought to mind by this post of Mickey's.]
I dare say the NX panel in New Barnet North Box (1972-1976) was a relatively easy panel to work (although it was quite a long panel) especially after it took on the Potters Bar (box) former area (in 1974?) and especially if the NX panel had 'A buttons' (Auto buttons) fitted to all the controlled signals at New Barnet & around the Potters Bar station area (the routes between the controlled signals at New Barnet & Potters Bar could be 'left in' so the signals would clear again behind passing trains once the track circuits had cleared again behind the train) because the 4 running lines the Up slow, Up fast, Down fast & Down slow lines were all signalled under TCB regulations so trains would basically signal themselves.
I don't believe there was any TDs at New Barnet North Box when both the switch panel & the NX panel were in operation (circa 1970-76) and that train descriptions were done via the single stroke block bells.
The old STC TDs at 'Barnet North' were kept working while Potters Bar remained untouched : A sort of side 'wing' desk was provided on either side of the IFS panel.
The left-hand one had the four-roads-in-one bells and Blocks instrument (must've been specially made), and I think the phone and indications box for the new SPTs. : But the huge old TD units were put onto the right-hand one ; which made sense because when New Barnet was resignalled, the 1950s Down starting signals halfway between NB and Greenwood, and those beyond ; plus the Up signals at, IIRC, Hadley Wood station and north thereof, were all left untouched [although the first of those on the Down, North Box's Starters BN15 and 24, were renumbered NB513 & 515 to have the correct new numbering for the controlled signals at the station to read onto : (The present day 513 & 515 aren't too far further north than where those were) ].
But when PB was resignalled, the new NX panel there commissioned, and the old NX panel shut down; the TD units were made redundant and all Train Descriptions were then done by bell, NB-PB-Hatfield No.1.
Re the temporary NX panels having 'Auto' buttons, I honestly can't remember : I've a hunch that there were no separate 'A' buttons; and the routes may have worked 'auto' 'on the straight' if you left them set after a train : I didn't see too much of those panels but something like that, I'm really astonished that I can't recall what was or wasn't there.
StevieG wrote:But when PB was resignalled, the new NX panel there commissioned, and the old NX panel shut down; the TD units were made redundant and all Train Descriptions were then done by bell, NB-PB-Hatfield No.1.
As previously mentioned (several times in the past) i actually got into Potters Bar (box) officially over the course of 3 separate Sundays around June/July of 1973 on 'cleaning duties' in the box as some overtime away from my normal duties as a telegraph lad at Welwyn Garden City (box). Anyway the 3 regular signalmen seemed old to me at the time i was 16 and those 3 must have been in there 50s but they all seemed friendly enough and didn't appear to mind me 'hanging around' the box after i done my cleaning virtually all day until about 5:pm after arriving at the box around 10:am that morning. The panel was by then a small'ish NX panel working with New Barnet North Box to the south and probably Hatfield (formerly No.2 box) to the north other than that i can't remember to much more about it?.
StevieG wrote:Re the temporary NX panels having 'Auto' buttons, I honestly can't remember : I've a hunch that there were no separate 'A' buttons; and the routes may have worked 'auto' 'on the straight' if you left them set after a train : I didn't see too much of those panels but something like that, I'm really astonished that I can't recall what was or wasn't there.
Samehere Stevie with regards to the Welwyn Garden City (box) NX panel i can't remember if it had any 'A' buttons on any of there controlled signals especially at Woolmer Green in particular although i have a feeling that the routes were just 'left in' on that NX panel(?) but i do remember that when i was regular at Western Junction in 1987 on the North London line (later better known as Dalston during the 1990s & 2000s) during the time i was at the box the old stirrup lever frame was taken out after about 5 months of me being there and the new NX panel was commissioned which by the way from memory was made in BR(E) York that panel had a couple of 'A' buttons fitted on the controlled signals at Navarino Road Junction the connection with the Graham Road Curve leading around to Liverpool Street those 'A' buttons on those 2 controlled signals one of which was a Junction signal with a set of right-hand 'feathers' for the Liverpool Street direction those 'A' buttons were usually left de-pressed for 'straight running' most of the time to & from the Stratford direction.
FINSBURY PARK 5 wrote: " .... but i do remember that when i was regular at Western Junction in 1987 on the North London line (later better known as Dalston during the 1990s & 2000s) ... during which time ... the new NX panel was commissioned ... that panel had a couple of 'A' buttons fitted on the controlled signals at Navarino Road Junction the connection with the Graham Road Curve leading around to Liverpool Street those 'A' buttons on those 2 controlled signals one of which was a Junction signal with a set of right-hand 'feathers' for the Liverpool Street direction those 'A' buttons were usually left de-pressed for 'straight running' most of the time to & from the Stratford direction.
Mickey
I'm pretty sure that 'A' buttons started appearing on some new panels from as early as the 1960s (Watford Junc.? etc.). But the (probably LNER-designed) panels at such as Bow Junc. & Stratford etc., did have Auto-working for straight routes ; but it only kicked in for a line when all of a box's controlled signals straight along that line were set. When that was done, the relevant one of a separate set of white 'Auto-Working' lights then lit up to indicate that status. So just setting one of the signals didn't put into 'auto', and cancelling one when they were all set and in 'auto' took the others out of 'auto' as well, and extinguished that line's 'Auto-Working' light.
In case you were wondering, I'm sure that the 1950s Potters Bar signalling had no auto working at all, so if trains were following each other along 'the straight', each route had to be re-stroked for every train.
That G.E. route out of Liverpool street was so intensive i guess boxes like Bow Junction & Stratford panels along with Forest Gate Junction & Ilford Station those last two named boxes were Electro-Mechanical box with lever frames as well as panels and maybe Ilford Car Sheds, Chadwell Heath & Romford that last named box was another Electro-Mechanical box with a lever frame and a panel had Auto-Working on the straight routes (although thats only a guess on my part i don't know that as fact?).
Back to New Barnet North Box after Oakleigh Park & New Barnet South Box had both closed in the autumn of 1970 Absolute Block working was still in force on all 4 running lines southwards from New Barnet North Box usually working with Cemetery (box) or if Cemetery was 'switched out' with New Southgate (box) and sometimes if both Cemetery & New Southgate were both 'switched out' which did sometimes happen on a Saturday night/Sunday morning i observed on a few occasions then New Barnet North Box would work Absolute Block with both Wood Green Up Box No.2 on the Up lines and with Wood Green No.1 (box) on the Down lines so that would have been roughly a 5 mile block section between Wood Green & New Barnet North Box.
I presume they repositioned the New Barnet North Box block instruments from off the old block shelf (facing towards the Up fast & Down fast & Down slow lines direction) to somewhere more better suited for the signalman working the panel, first in late 1970 when working the switch panel after the lever frame had been abolished and removed from the box and later on in 1972 when the NX panel had replaced the switch panel. When the NX panel was in situ if you happened to be riding on a train especially on the Down slow lines after just leaving the north end station platform and passing New Barnet North Box especially during the hours of darkness you could observe the long NX panel illuminated quite well for about 6 or 7 seconds before passing the box completely although i don't remember seeing any block instruments mounted over the NX panel especially for that short time that both Cemetery & New Southgate boxes were still there before they were both closed in February 1973 and TCB (Track Circuit Block) was extended southwards from New Barnet North Box to Wood Green Up Box No.2 on the Up lines & Wood Green No.1 (box) on the Down lines.
