The LNER Encyclopedia

Hi all,

I am currently trying to find an excuse and plausible solution to run the full length Flying Scotsman Service in a space of about 10ft in length, in OO. I have come across many different ideas;

1) Open country, not much operational interest here but it could be anywhere on the ECML and I could have A4s, A1s and J Class locomotives all in the one place, without looking odd.

2) Model the end of a major station or terminus and have the train go into the station into a fiddle yard. Once again the option to run many different classes of locomotive. However finding a station that will fit into the size in question will be difficult.

3) Model a small through station that The Flying Scotsman would have run through on it's run to Glasgow or London. This also allows for much varied stock. However I do not know of any such stations.

4) Forget it and think of something else.

I don't particularly like option 4 for obvious reasons.

Does any one have any information that they could share that would give me a realistic layout, or is this just not possible?

Regards

Karl

karlrestall wrote:The Flying Scotsman would have run through on its run to Glasgow or London

The Flying Scotsman was, traditionally, a London King's Cross to Edinburgh Waverley service.

It's eventual destination was Glasgow though I believe.

Regards

Karl

The 1954 "British Railways - Passenger Services Scotland" booklet shows the down Scotsman departing KX at 10:00 and terminating in Waverley at 17:27 (almost seven and a half hours later!). The up service departs Waverley at 10:00 (connecting with through carriages from Aberdeen, departing 05:50, and Dundee Tay Bridge at 07:45) and arrives KX at 17:27. No mention of Glasgow, though I did wonder if there might be through carriages from Queen Street.

I don't think that BR practice differed much from the LNER, though I stand to be corrected.

There were through carriages to Glasgow, but only the first three coaches. That being the BTK, CK and TK. I took my information from Historic Carriage Drawings Volume I The LNER and Constituents, where there is a photograph showing a RTS with Flying Scotsman destination boards and a smaller destination board proclaiming Glasgow as the eventual destination. So to be honest I'm not sure if traveling through to Glasgow was regular or not but I do know that coaches were attached from Aberdeen.

Regards

Karl

Karl,

I see you're in Teesside. Why not come down to the Ormesby Hall club one Monday night and have a look at our model of Pilmoor? A junction station on the ECML through which the Flying Scotsman passed. You might get some ideas and inspiration and we're a fairly friendly bunch.

We have a 'Scotsman' set on the layout but it's all packed away at the moment until we reopen in March. The fiddle yard is presently being rewired.

Jonathan

karlrestall wrote: 1) Open country, not much operational interest here but it could be anywhere on the ECML and I could have A4s, A1s and J Class locomotives all in the one place, without looking odd.

You could have this Idea but add in a pair of loops to hold slower trains in. The ECML had (And still has) many sections of double track and therefore loops where the slower freight trains could be pulled into were important. This will add operational interest and it can be a general area on the ECML. You don't need to have an exact location in mind but things like the general lie of the land and style of a signal box can narrow it down. Of course if you have an area in mind then you can run more prototipical trains though it.

Any suggestions Stephen? I have looked on Google maps and followed various points of the ECML, where it lets me, and cannot find any good modelling points. Some are either just open fields with nothing at all around apart from, well fields. Others are double track and I have not been able to find any passing loops. Either I'm not looking in the right places or I have been thrown off the ECML by the various other lines that diverge off the mainline.

Regards

Karl

P.S I have found this http://www.scenicmodelrailways.com/page_315363.html Do you think with a bit of jiggery pokery it could be suitable.

i know of the Clapole Loops between Newark and Granthem as i was on a Charter once and got stopped in them for 10 min waiting for our path accross the down main to platform 4 at Granthem:x

Dosen't need to be a spercific location. Make it generic.

That link shows a station which is another possibility. My idea is to have open countryside with no station but like i say with loops to allow faster trains to overtake. i recently operated a frends N gauge layout at exhibition. He had a loop on the outer running line but nothing on the inner. I found that the addition of this loop allowed me to stop trains in the senic section and have expresses overtake. The inner loop was boring in comparisen.

Karl,

Clearly in 4 mm scale, even with a minimum radius of 30 inches, there is not much left of your 10 feet for straight track through a small station so you will need to use a lot of ingenuity.

In my opinion, you really need something a bit more interesting than a piece of mainline track in open country or a simple through station. In ten feet you may be able to build a model based on Alne Station, which was the junction for the Easingwold Light Railway on the four track ECML north of York. They used to hire J71s from the LNER/BR to run their train. See article and photos in Backtrack magazine for December 2006.

If this main line station is a bit too large, how about Chathill, the junction on the ECML for the North Sunderland Railway north of Alnmouth in Northumberland. This company also hired LNER locos, see http://www.northumbrian-railways.co.uk/nsr.html

There are a number of other possibilities north of Newcastle, have a look at http://www.northumbrian-railways.co.uk/ecml.html. This site also features a track plan for Chathill, which seems to have real possibilities for you.

Alnmouth itself was also an interesting station with a loco shed near the platforms; you might be able to squeeze it into 10 feet with a lot of simplification. See http://www.avrs.co.uk/rest/alnmth1900.html

Colombo

if you want to be prototypical and have a loco that pulled the Flying Scotsman on different occasions when 4472 didnt, i know W.P Allen (A1 60114) stood in on about 16 occasions on the up Scotsman and about 7-8 times on the down Scotsman
if you want anymore info on when she did (Dates/exact number of times)feel free to PM me

From Mike

from the mid 30's 4472 lost the corridor tender (according to Yeadons) so i'm guessing that it stopped working the flying scotsman from around that period until she was rebuilt. By 1936 the A3's and 4's had arrived so they would have been running the express one imagines.

how about a through terminus? A double track or two on one side of the station would run straight through, with all other tracks on the other side ending in buffers at the platform. This kind of thing allows for a huge variety of stock, from local goods to Flying Scotsman, especially if you manage to fit in a small goods yard and/or engine shed

When there were mainline repairs north of KX weren't the trains diverted by way of what I call the Hertford loop?

If so, there are plenty of small stations on the loop that could be modelled, justification being that the repairs took longer than anticipated

Steve.

Steve, wasn't the Hertford loop where the line branched off at Woodgreen (now Ally Pally), or am I completely wrong here?