The LNER Encyclopedia

I wonder can any one help me with information on these kits?I do remember adverts for the rebuilt version with Gresley boiler in the press and assumed but wasn't sure the other variations had been done.Recently,by accident rather than design, I was able to obtain a badly built but complete example of the original Raven pacific kit which may have been K150.It will need to be completely stripped and rebuilt and it would be ideal to have a set of instructions to hand to help me identify what small bits may fall off and get lost in the Nitromors!I would also benefit from knowing what materials are used-its a brass boiler with whitemetal footplate,but I suspect the cab roof could be plastic(?!)I was also surprised to see it had a lot of etched components for the tender,I had assumed DJH would simply have used that supplied with the C7,Q7etc but they seem to have taken a lot of trouble with what I was told by the vendor was a fairly small run of kits.Any information,advice etc would be most welcome,especially if anyone has previously dismantled a mixed media kit before-I will have to get the boiler off the footplate as the saddle is certainly wrongly fitted,forcing the front footplate down a lot.I suspect a lot of parts are glued but there are definately"spot welds" of solder visible so it won't just fall apart in strippers,I'll be using that mainly to clean the paint off and see what is holding it together before I proceed.After that I suspect I will be in for some careful de-soldering and cleaning and it could be a long haul job,but at least the parts seem in good shape individually.I'd like to do it some justice so please contribute advice if you can! Thanks!

Hi Rob,

I'm sure I can help you out with this. I have an unbuilt DJH kit of this loco in my cupboard. It is to be built in the next few months for a client. The kit reference number is K62 and it was produced as a limited run of 175 kits.

I think the best thing to do is send you a copy of the instructions. Please send my your address in a private message. This will tell you what is brass, what is white-metal and help with identification of parts. The original cab roof is whitemetal and the boiler pre-rolled brass with some whitemetal inserts for the firebox front. The tender a mixture of materials. Sides and frames are brass but the top with flared edge is whitemetal.

As far as advice goes on "boiling down" badly built kits I would avoid Nitromors to begin with. Try getting the paint off with Modelstrip first. If successful you will probably be able to identify the materials and the construction method more easily. If Modelstrip is unsuccessful then I would attempt selective paint removal with cellulose thinners applied with a brush. Again the aim is to identify materials to see if Nitromors will be safe to use. One final thing if you go the Nitormors way. Make sure you get all the small parts out of the resultant gooey mess. Anything that is glued will fall apart and I guarantee you'll end up throwing something out with the used paint stripper. I've learnt this one from bitter experience. Parts assembled with low metal solder can be persuaded apart by holding them in a pan of boiling water. But please take some precautions otherwise you'll get scolded. Wear some gardening gloves and have a number of suitable tools to hand for hooking parts that have fallen off out of the water. Parts assembled with high temperature solder would just have to be sweated apart with the soldering iron. A high wattage one would help, 50W to 100W, to get plenty of heat in quickly.

Apologies if you already know some of these techniques but I thought it would be best to post it all for the benefit of others. Using these methods I have had some success with rescuing a DJH BR std 5. I made a bodge of it as a teenager but 20 years later I stripped it down and got a much better model out of it. A picture is attached.

cheers,
Morgan

P.S. Thanks for the info on the C4 kit

I can't add any more to that except to say the only accident I've had with Nitromors was on a J69 where the plastikard overlays the builder had put on the sides melted. On the same loco, however, the cardboard tank tops he had put on survived both the Nitromors and the hot and cold rinses afterwards.

Oh, and if anyone has a spare Raven pacific I'd like one in my collection...

Thank you gentlemen both,thats a great help Morgan,I'll send my adress on at once.If the kit for your client turns out as well as the rebuilt Standard you posted he should be thrilled-a lovely natural presence to that loco,superb pipework!
As usual good advice,I was going to rush in wasn't I?I actually have some modelstrip,the older,better,clay based type,and loads of celluose strippers so thats the road I'll take.I also have a good selection of irons,topped by my 80watt so that should do there.I haven't had time for a good look at the kit yet but hopefully this evening-I suspect a lot of the glued joins are brittle as the front buffers came off with a tug!I've done the nitromors thing too-had to fish the tiny cabside footsteps on a Finecast A3 from a morass of Nitromors and Apple Green grunge!Managed it,consoled by the thought that at least SEF are great for providing spares if I hadn't!
Can either of you shed some light on what will loosen up cyano?Heat? Nitromors? I guess things like the lubricators are held on with this.I normally use Epoxy as my first choice.I was originally going to store the loco for a couple of years and concentrate on newbuilds but wonky as it is it looks really striking and I can't resist it!Plus it has sentimental value as one of the uncles who got me interested loved this class-I have a 7mm Skinley blueprint of this version that he bought in 1945 hanging on my wall,he would have loved to see this kit.Therefore I have it pencilled in for a start once I finish the current projects,hopefully by the end of Jan,and this gives me time to think carefully about how to proceed.
Interesting point about how tough cardboard can be Jon-I need to put a cab floor into my Gem J83 which is essentailly finished,so I think I'll try cardboard,I hate plasticard and I'm too lazy for brass!As usual,thanks!

You can buy a solvent for cyanoacrylate. I have some which I sometimes use when I spill it on my fingers. It isn't great on fingers, but helps to soften it a bit.

If it is only a small bit of CA, I'll often just let it dry and then try to pick it off!

Richard

We do superglue at work, and sometimes have a little de-bonder, but acetone works, although you have to be quick as it evaporates very quickly.

We do it in a PU Foam cleaner (expanding foam) or a Nail tip remover (fake nails) hope this helps

Thanks Richard and Mark,
I normally have some acetone around so I will try that,if not it will have to be the false nail stuff! I had a good look at the loco yesterday and was delighted to find the boiler and cab are bolted to the footplate so what I thought would be the worst job is no job at all!It lifted clear like an RTR jobbie.Even more oddly,the thing runs quite well and was obviously built to run on sectional track-flangeless centre drivers and cylinders much too far out-it actually did a lap of my 3yr olds Thomas track that afternoon! Went very well on my own(SMP)test track later on without even wheel cleaning -its a D13 on a crude looking mount driving the centre axle and I would normally drive such a big loco with a 16/30,DJH box and a flywheel!I'll see how it goes when its all cleaned up but I may just tidy up the chassis,move the cyls in a bit,change the centre drivers and repaint.No doubt theres a catch somewhere,but heres hoping.
Rob.

Hello Rob
I have a DJH Raven A2, with Gresley Tender. I am slowly building this as the rebuilt 2404. I obtained a SEF boiler, cabsides, roof and firebox front.
The cabsides are rather poor, in my opinion, and I would prefer etched sides-any ideas where I can get a pair?
The boiler smokebox was machined off, and a brass cylinder blank made to fit. This will have a nickel overlay. The kit footplate is a sixties throwback-nowadays etched would be the way to go, otherwise it is not too bad. 2404 name and number plates came from Jackson Evans. I can forward a drawing if you are interested

Hello J,
I understand what you are after-ironically,DJH did that version as one of the series of kits but I reckon it would be very difficult to find one! Yours seems a good solution,and is certainly prototypical!I have built an SEF A1,I prefer them to the DJH version actually,but I know what you mean about the cabsides,the rear extension under the roof seem to be missing for example.The DJH kit for the Gresley boiler version presumably had etched cabsides.The problem is that DJH do not supply spares,unlike SEF who give a really great service-I always think DJH are a bit"corporate" in outlook!Therefore its unlikely you will be able to get,say, a spare cab etch from one of their A1/A3 kits from them directly,but these may be available from a professional builder.I imagine the DJH kit gives alternatives,high/low presumably like SEF,so possibly an advert in BRM's free classifieds would be a starting point.
Thanks for the offer of plans,I may take you up on it but oddly I have a set of 7mm Skinleys,dated 1945,which belonged to an uncle-he was great enthusiast,latterly in 4mm and would have loved to see the A2.They are for the original NER pair,which my kit represents.I was also lucky enough to be sent a copy of the original instructions by Morgan,a real help in deconstructing and hopefully finding all the little bits afterwards!
There have been two interesting articles in LNER Magazine recently,very favourable to the class, and with interesting details and photos of them on top-link work,not the usual "bearings not up to the job" comment followed by "and quickly relegated to secondary duties".They were certainly impressive machines and the writer believes they owed their demise to the success of the early V2's as much as to being non-standard.
Good luck with your loco,keep us informed of progress!

Hello Rob
I understand that the DJH kit for the 2404 rebiuld was not produced-I may be wrong. 2404 had a number of changes whilst carrying a Gresley boiler-the marine type connecting rods were changed for circular type big ends, and an air pump was fitted on the RH footplate, and removed.

Interesting,I came across my loco through a chance enquiry having once seen an ad for the rebuilt version!It could well be the case that it was not proceeded with,what surprises me is that DJH never put a reworked kit for the class into even limited batch production,I think there would be a market,albeit limited,for them.Consider ourselves lucky to have them I suppose,its going to be a real pet amongst my locos!

Hi
I am trying to find photographs of City Of Durham when using the 8 wheel tender. In particular the screw reversing gear for any of the A2 Class .This is for my DJH kit I am building at moment

thanks Mick

Mick,I will have a look through my few sources ASAP,our books are all over the place but I should be able to find most of them-silly to even ask I suppose,but I assume you have scoured the relevant RCTS and Yeadons-which latter incidentally does not do the class justice at all in my opinion. Cheers,
Rob

Hi Rob
Yes i have the RCTS and Yeadon books, Yeadon is very poor.
The best photos I have are in the excellent Townsend East Coast Pacifics at work. I have had this book for a long time and has one of the best coverages I have ever seen.

thanks

Mick

For the info anyone who may want one of these kits.

Two have just sold on ebay, one for £360 !!. all three for sale are/were for the 2400/2001 early NER version.

Current one with a reserve price.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/266371280124