The LNER Encyclopedia

Hello,
Just fishing the collective knowledge pond... Does anyone know if suburban stock was used in the Newcastle (or NE are generally) in the 1930s? I don't believe so given the limited information I have available (I'm in the USA) but would like some input to help build up a reasonable realistic coaching stock. I'm particularly wondering about the single coaches rather than the articulated multiples.
Thanks.
Jeremy

Looking in LNER carriages by Michael Harris yes they did have suburban stock this seems to be mainly full thirds built to diag 56/57 but there will be others as well. The main suburban stock was the EMUS that worked arround this area.

Glad to see you found the site.

52D

Jeremy,

Yes, there was quite a lot of suburban stock around Newcastle and the NE (not just EMUs).
I have a few photos from the 1900s to the 1950s showing local workings with celestory stock and eliptical roof stock.

Malcolm.

I don't have diagram numbers in front of me, but does anyone know if the single suburban stock in the Kirk range would have been present? I do have an assortment of NER clerestory and elliptical stock mostly from the D&S range but was wondering to what extent it could be supplemented by the Kirk offerings.
Jeremy

John Fozard's offerings would be worth considering too - see NE and LNE suburban coaches

Jeremy Bartlett wrote:Hello,
Just fishing the collective knowledge pond... Does anyone know if suburban stock was used in the Newcastle (or NE are generally) in the 1930s? I don't believe so given the limited information I have available (I'm in the USA) but would like some input to help build up a reasonable realistic coaching stock. I'm particularly wondering about the single coaches rather than the articulated multiples.
Thanks.
Jeremy

Because of the nature of the cities that the NE served, apart from the electric services, I'm not sure that they ran specific suburban services. What they did run was a full time table of secondary services which, for the most part, form of either 3 or 5 car sets. By the early 30s these could be made up of arc roofed, clerestory, elliptical roofed or new Gresley stock. Later in that decade as more Gresley stock became available the older coaches were either withdrawn or transferred to other areas.

Probably the best advice is to find as many photos of trains in your chosen time frame as you can, and model specific trains. I can usually help with identifying individual coaches.

Jeremy

The North Eastern Railway association produce a copy of the LNER - North East Area carriage roster as at 1st May 1932.
This covers the make up of steam hauled passenger trains - local and inter area - for the summer of that year. Whilst it does not give details of specific coaches, local stock was in the main ex North Eastern Railway, particularly on Tyneside and surrounding areas. At that time, electric trains were only to be found on the North Tyneside "loop" i.e. to the coast and back.
To the best of my ability I came come up with suggestions as to what (ex North eastern Railway) diagram coach might be in each set. An example being the steam hauled workings from Newcastle Central to South Shields which were generally made up of ex North Eastern Railway 49ft Low Arc Roof stock. These were in fact transferred from the North Tyneside services when the electric stock was intoduced in the early 1900s.

Do let me know if I can be of help to you.

Regards

David

In his last book on LNER Standard Gresley Coaches Michael Harris says, refering to the Diagram 56/57 Thirds " the majority of those built for the NEA were transferred to the SSA and other Areas, as from the 1930/1 CBP and in subsequent progrmmes." The dates of the transfers are not stated. As far as I can glean the only ones which were not transferred were Nos 22359 and 22941 - Diagram 56, built 1925 and Nos 21143,21622,21872 and 21115 - Diagram 57, built 1927

A little info on the North Tyneside electrics

http://www.emus.co.uk/zone/tyneside/tyneside.htm

Wikipedia has a section on this also

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyneside_Electrics

scottiedog wrote:In his last book on LNER Standard Gresley Coaches Michael Harris says, refering to the Diagram 56/57 Thirds " the majority of those built for the NEA were transferred to the SSA and other Areas, as from the 1930/1 CBP and in subsequent progrmmes." The dates of the transfers are not stated. As far as I can glean the only ones which were not transferred were Nos 22359 and 22941 - Diagram 56, built 1925 and Nos 21143,21622,21872 and 21115 - Diagram 57, built 1927

The NER built relative small numbers of corridor coaches, the first ones coming in 1908. The LNER carriage replacement programme in the 30s enabled corridor stock to replace the non-corridor stock on the long distance secondary services. The replaced non corridor coaches were than used to replace any six-wheeled stock still in use. Surplus stock was also cascaded to upgrade services and replace six wheeled stock in all the other areas of the LNER.

In his article about the NER's 49ft Low Arc Roof Stock published in the British Railway Journal - NER Special Edition, David Williamson, an NERA member, summarised the position, in 1928, as follows:-

Sunderland Sets (later Composition B) x 22 sets BT (Brake 3rd) + C (Composite) (3x1st/4x3rd) + BT (Brake 3rd).
Manors - Newbiggin x 2 sets BT + C (3x1st/4x3rd) + T (3rd) + BT.
Newcastle Link "B" (i.e. Newcastle - South Shields Service) x 5 sets BT + C (5x1st/2x3rd) + T + T + BT.

The LNER NEA Carriage Roster as at 1st May sets out the following:-

Composition B - Sets 57 to 96 - BT + C (3x1st/4x3rd) + BT 24 1st class seats + 120 3rd class seats.

Sets 57 to 62 (generally) Newcastle - Blackhill - Durham trains.
Sets 63 to 84 (generally) Sunderland - South Shields - Newcastle trains but also venturing to Durham, Bishop Auckland, Middleton in Teesdale and even West Hartlepool.
Sets 85 to 91 are marked as cancelled in the Carriage Roster.
Sets 92 to 96 (generally) Manors North - Blyth - Newbiggin.

Newcastle to South Shields Trains.

Sets 147 to 151 - BT + C (4 x1st/3 x3rd) + T + T + BT 32 1st Class seats + 270 3rd Class seats. At busy times the Newcastle to South Shields Services would be strengthened by one or more 3rds.

The Brake 3rds would in all probability be ex NER Diagram 53, the 3rds ex NER diagram 54 and the composites ex NER diagram 63 - now 4x1st/3x3rd - and ex NER diagram 64. Strengthening coaches are likely to be ex NER diagram 178 8 compartment Elliptical Roof 3rd.

D&S Models produced 4mm/1ft scale kits for the NER Low Arc Roof Stock and the diagram 178 3rd, but these are now nigh on impossible to obtain, now, at a reasonable price. John Fozard - North Eastern Design - does a RTR model of the diagram 178 3rd.

D&S stll had Dia 178 & 111 in stock in May . He may have some left. Give him a ring very helpful

Mick